"No ATC speed restrictions"
Ohcirrej
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"No ATC speed restrictions"
Situation occured yesterday on EGLL Final Director that I'm looking to get a few ideas on.
Medium A/c vectored from Lambourne following Heavy traffic about 9 miles ahead. The Medium was assigned 220kts by the intermediate director and given a closing heading to the ILS (They were into a good headwind of about 45 kts). As the Heavy ahead was about 8 mile final, given 160kts to 4 miles and passed to the Tower. I then instructed the following Medium as he was the only other guy within 30 miles "No further speed", thinking if he wished to slow he could (for that all important CDA). The response was "Can we speed up?".
In this senario, the request of can we speed up left me wondering. Speed up to what? 250kts came to mind, but nearly a mile and a half a minute speed difference in the wind conditions could have been sporting. The jet was still descending, so I guess a good spurt of speed could have been possible, but just what to expect wasn't apparent. An I didn't want him to stuff himself up behind the heavy and be told to reduce for the vortex.
I did respond by telling him "I'd prefer not" and told him he was whatever miles following heavy traffic (crap memory!)
Thoughts?
Medium A/c vectored from Lambourne following Heavy traffic about 9 miles ahead. The Medium was assigned 220kts by the intermediate director and given a closing heading to the ILS (They were into a good headwind of about 45 kts). As the Heavy ahead was about 8 mile final, given 160kts to 4 miles and passed to the Tower. I then instructed the following Medium as he was the only other guy within 30 miles "No further speed", thinking if he wished to slow he could (for that all important CDA). The response was "Can we speed up?".
In this senario, the request of can we speed up left me wondering. Speed up to what? 250kts came to mind, but nearly a mile and a half a minute speed difference in the wind conditions could have been sporting. The jet was still descending, so I guess a good spurt of speed could have been possible, but just what to expect wasn't apparent. An I didn't want him to stuff himself up behind the heavy and be told to reduce for the vortex.
I did respond by telling him "I'd prefer not" and told him he was whatever miles following heavy traffic (crap memory!)
Thoughts?
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
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Hows about... "Not greater than (speed) to 4 miles" .. solves the catch-up but allows the aircraft to slow as much as it wants.
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dude if it is a medium (jet i assume) with 12 to touch down (given that he was 8 nm behing the fatty 4 to touch down) and he is already doing 220 I bet a six pack of beer budday that he aint gunna speed up.
Taking the piss out of you he was [/yoda]
Taking the piss out of you he was [/yoda]
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Jerricho, if you're going to mooch around here asking kiss ass questions to pilots and showing off your position as the second best controller in the world, you really have to learn to spell.
Eloquence is nothing without control.
Pimms anyone?
P7
Eloquence is nothing without control.
Pimms anyone?
P7
Ohcirrej
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Ahhhh P 7.......nice of you to join us with your rare form of Wisdom.
Mines a jug of Pimms my friend......I know the perfect place to drink it. I think the barf has been washed away from "Reeson Arch" *wink*. Great place for MILF watching!
And Evil Twin.........you crack me up!
Mines a jug of Pimms my friend......I know the perfect place to drink it. I think the barf has been washed away from "Reeson Arch" *wink*. Great place for MILF watching!
And Evil Twin.........you crack me up!
Panthera pardus puella
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hehe - just going to be picky - but - if you didnt want the second guy to speed up - maybe not the the phrase" no atc speed"???!!!!!!
just joshing!!!
me - i say - speed blah or less
or - speed blah to 4 d
yaffs
just joshing!!!
me - i say - speed blah or less
or - speed blah to 4 d
yaffs
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Just setting an upper speed limit gives the pilot an immediate band to work within - saves mind reading on both sides.
Sometimes an extra few knots helps us dive off some excess height, but there would be no point in barrelling in at 250kts at the last minute - it's never worth the grey hairs. Otherwise it's slow down to get more drag out and take a minute or so longer on the approach.
Incidently our aircraft flight monitoring system would detect a "rushed approach", and any trend in that direction is usually nipped in the bud by the FSO.
LGW are well practised in the art of speed control and I often congratulate them briefly before "call Tower 124.22 callsign only" - nice to see!!!
Thanks
Sometimes an extra few knots helps us dive off some excess height, but there would be no point in barrelling in at 250kts at the last minute - it's never worth the grey hairs. Otherwise it's slow down to get more drag out and take a minute or so longer on the approach.
Incidently our aircraft flight monitoring system would detect a "rushed approach", and any trend in that direction is usually nipped in the bud by the FSO.
LGW are well practised in the art of speed control and I often congratulate them briefly before "call Tower 124.22 callsign only" - nice to see!!!
Thanks
