Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Ground & Other Ops Forums > ATC Issues
Reload this Page >

TWR providing APP control

Wikiposts
Search
ATC Issues A place where pilots may enter the 'lions den' that is Air Traffic Control in complete safety and find out the answers to all those obscure topics which you always wanted to know the answer to but were afraid to ask.

TWR providing APP control

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 20th Mar 2022, 09:18
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: LKMT
Age: 39
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
TWR providing APP control

Hello,
Im working on my bachelor thesis and want to know if anyone know a place, where TWR provide an approach control (either whole app or in form of director). I can think of some Polish airfields such is Lublin (TWR controls traffic up to FL135).

Thank you
Ross182 is offline  
Old 20th Mar 2022, 15:47
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: EU
Posts: 155
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I have seen several aerodromes like that in Turkey: LTAJ, LTAY, LTCA, LTCB, LTCD, LTCE, LTCF, LTCI, LTCK, LTCN, LTCO, LTCR, LTCS, LTCP, LTCT, LTCU, LTCV, LTCW, LTFD, LTFG...
poldek77 is offline  
Old 20th Mar 2022, 16:50
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 608
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Biggin Hill (EGKB) ?
Gloucester (EGBJ) ?
Bright-Ling is offline  
Old 20th Mar 2022, 21:00
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Home
Posts: 118
Received 28 Likes on 6 Posts
You probably need to make a distinction between a procedural approach control service and one using surveillance equipment.. Your reference to Director suggests that you are thinking about a surveillance service. A procedural control service, can usually be provided more easily although those with the necessary qualifications and competence are less commonly found compared with 'the old days'!
Equivocal is offline  
Old 21st Mar 2022, 14:57
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Wildest Surrey
Age: 75
Posts: 10,821
Received 98 Likes on 71 Posts
Originally Posted by Bright-Ling
Biggin Hill (EGKB) ?
Gloucester (EGBJ) ?
Cranfield (EGTC)
Woodvale (EGOW)
Perth (EGPT)
chevvron is online now  
Old 21st Mar 2022, 15:17
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 608
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Equivocal
You probably need to make a distinction between a procedural approach control service and one using surveillance equipment.
True, but it does say APP, not APS
Bright-Ling is offline  
Old 21st Mar 2022, 18:02
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Dorset UK
Age: 70
Posts: 1,899
Likes: 0
Received 15 Likes on 12 Posts
Used to fly night flights into Bournemouth, 0300 ish. The controller would do the approach control from the radar room and when we were established on the ILS they would go upstairs and do the tower control. (only one person on duty).
dixi188 is offline  
Old 21st Mar 2022, 18:30
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: South of England
Posts: 1,172
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Used to fly night flights into Bournemouth, 0300 ish. The controller would do the approach control from the radar room and when we were established on the ILS they would go upstairs and do the tower control. (only one person on duty).
They certainly should not have been doing that. Perhaps they had approval to do it from the aerodrome control room, otherwise....

2 s
2 sheds is offline  
Old 21st Mar 2022, 20:20
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: UK
Posts: 210
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by chevvron
Cranfield (EGTC)
Woodvale (EGOW)
Perth (EGPT)
There's no ATC at Perth. It's air-ground
mike current is offline  
Old 21st Mar 2022, 20:36
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Deepest darkest Inbredland....
Posts: 606
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by 2 sheds
They certainly should not have been doing that. Perhaps they had approval to do it from the aerodrome control room, otherwise....

2 s
Originally the radar room was about 5 steps down from the VCR and behind a curtain. It was done this way for quite a few years.
terrain safe is offline  
Old 21st Mar 2022, 20:45
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Home
Posts: 118
Received 28 Likes on 6 Posts
Originally Posted by Bright-Ling
True, but it does say APP, not APS
Sorry, I think it's just me getting old, in my day APP was approach generally or approach procedural, and approach radar was APR. But the reference to Director suggests it's not just procedural that is of interest.

Don't know what the state of play is in the UK these days although the CAA was not keen on the idea of providing a surveillance service whilst also providing TWR when the idea was first mooted, I recall that there were limits on traffic (one at a time) so that the controller would not be providing both services at the same time. I think that, like many licensing 'policies' of the day, such limitations were relaxed quite quickly in certain circumstances - but, as I say, I've no idea how relaxed they've become.

For what it's worth, the last time I was at Charleroi I think there was a single controller doing both aerodrome control and vectoring inbounds but I don't know if that was the normal mode of operation.
Equivocal is offline  
Old 21st Mar 2022, 23:30
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Christchurch, NZ
Age: 38
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Yes, there are several TWR's in New Zealand that provide both an aerodrome control and procedural approach control service. NZNV, NZDN, NZNS, NZNP, NZNR, NZGS.
sthomson is offline  
Old 22nd Mar 2022, 18:10
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: LHR/EGLL
Age: 45
Posts: 4,392
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by 2 sheds
They certainly should not have been doing that. Perhaps they had approval to do it from the aerodrome control room, otherwise....

2 s
Didn’t the night shift ATCO at Bournemouth fall over and break a leg one night while on duty about 20 years ago or am I imagining that?
Gonzo is offline  
Old 22nd Mar 2022, 23:49
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Wildest Surrey
Age: 75
Posts: 10,821
Received 98 Likes on 71 Posts
Originally Posted by Gonzo
Didn’t the night shift ATCO at Bournemouth fall over and break a leg one night while on duty about 20 years ago or am I imagining that?
I remember a case like that; don't know if it was Bournemouth (may have been Coventry) but the guy who fell downstairs couldn't move and it wasn't until an aircraft called and got no reply that the pilot managed to contact somebody at the airport and asked them to find out what had happened.
Apart from that, in the '70s no airfields in the north of Scotland had radar so the tower controller operated TWR and APP bandboxed; FISOs hadn't been invented so the tels officer was supposed to be trained to provide aerodrome information.

Last edited by chevvron; 23rd Mar 2022 at 00:01.
chevvron is online now  
Old 23rd Mar 2022, 09:23
  #15 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: LKMT
Age: 39
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Sorry not beeing specific and missleaded with the APP service. I ment APS... So TWR providing APS.. Radar services too.
Ross182 is offline  
Old 23rd Mar 2022, 10:18
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Wildest Surrey
Age: 75
Posts: 10,821
Received 98 Likes on 71 Posts
Originally Posted by Ross182
Sorry not beeing specific and missleaded with the APP service. I ment APS... So TWR providing APS.. Radar services too.
Can be done in the UK under 'low traffic' conditions but I don't know the details as it happened after I retired in 2008.
chevvron is online now  
Old 23rd Mar 2022, 11:42
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: UK
Posts: 210
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by chevvron
Apart from that, in the '70s no airfields in the north of Scotland had radar so the tower controller operated TWR and APP bandboxed; FISOs hadn't been invented so the tels officer was supposed to be trained to provide aerodrome information.
Airfields in the North of Scotland still don't have radar, with the exception of Sumburgh and Inverness.
mike current is offline  
Old 23rd Mar 2022, 18:42
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: UK & Morocco
Posts: 146
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Ross182
Hello,
Im working on my bachelor thesis and want to know if anyone know a place, where TWR provide an approach control (either whole app or in form of director). I can think of some Polish airfields such is Lublin (TWR controls traffic up to FL135).

Thank you
I'm sure the chap in Toulouse was doing both last time I was there (that was before COVID though so might not be the case now). Wasn't much traffic around and can't remember much other than our surprise that he was doing everything at quite a large airport.
Morris542 is offline  
Old 24th Mar 2022, 11:11
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: on the way to sea
Posts: 273
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
LJPZ, LJMB, LJCE
kontrolor is offline  
Old 24th Mar 2022, 18:17
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Wildest Surrey
Age: 75
Posts: 10,821
Received 98 Likes on 71 Posts
Originally Posted by Morris542
I'm sure the chap in Toulouse was doing both last time I was there (that was before COVID though so might not be the case now). Wasn't much traffic around and can't remember much other than our surprise that he was doing everything at quite a large airport.
Just goes to show what an experienced ATCO can do.
chevvron is online now  


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.