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-   -   TWR providing APP control (https://www.pprune.org/atc-issues/645791-twr-providing-app-control.html)

Ross182 20th Mar 2022 09:18

TWR providing APP control
 
Hello,
Im working on my bachelor thesis and want to know if anyone know a place, where TWR provide an approach control (either whole app or in form of director). I can think of some Polish airfields such is Lublin (TWR controls traffic up to FL135).

Thank you

poldek77 20th Mar 2022 15:47

I have seen several aerodromes like that in Turkey: LTAJ, LTAY, LTCA, LTCB, LTCD, LTCE, LTCF, LTCI, LTCK, LTCN, LTCO, LTCR, LTCS, LTCP, LTCT, LTCU, LTCV, LTCW, LTFD, LTFG...

Bright-Ling 20th Mar 2022 16:50

Biggin Hill (EGKB) ?
Gloucester (EGBJ) ?

Equivocal 20th Mar 2022 21:00

You probably need to make a distinction between a procedural approach control service and one using surveillance equipment.. Your reference to Director suggests that you are thinking about a surveillance service. A procedural control service, can usually be provided more easily although those with the necessary qualifications and competence are less commonly found compared with 'the old days'!

chevvron 21st Mar 2022 14:57


Originally Posted by Bright-Ling (Post 11202833)
Biggin Hill (EGKB) ?
Gloucester (EGBJ) ?

Cranfield (EGTC)
Woodvale (EGOW)
Perth (EGPT)

Bright-Ling 21st Mar 2022 15:17


Originally Posted by Equivocal (Post 11202925)
You probably need to make a distinction between a procedural approach control service and one using surveillance equipment.

True, but it does say APP, not APS

dixi188 21st Mar 2022 18:02

Used to fly night flights into Bournemouth, 0300 ish. The controller would do the approach control from the radar room and when we were established on the ILS they would go upstairs and do the tower control. (only one person on duty).

2 sheds 21st Mar 2022 18:30


Used to fly night flights into Bournemouth, 0300 ish. The controller would do the approach control from the radar room and when we were established on the ILS they would go upstairs and do the tower control. (only one person on duty).
They certainly should not have been doing that. Perhaps they had approval to do it from the aerodrome control room, otherwise....

2 s

mike current 21st Mar 2022 20:20


Originally Posted by chevvron (Post 11203353)
Cranfield (EGTC)
Woodvale (EGOW)
Perth (EGPT)

There's no ATC at Perth. It's air-ground

terrain safe 21st Mar 2022 20:36


Originally Posted by 2 sheds (Post 11203456)
They certainly should not have been doing that. Perhaps they had approval to do it from the aerodrome control room, otherwise....

2 s

Originally the radar room was about 5 steps down from the VCR and behind a curtain. It was done this way for quite a few years.

Equivocal 21st Mar 2022 20:45


Originally Posted by Bright-Ling
True, but it does say APP, not APS

Sorry, I think it's just me getting old, in my day APP was approach generally or approach procedural, and approach radar was APR. But the reference to Director suggests it's not just procedural that is of interest.

Don't know what the state of play is in the UK these days although the CAA was not keen on the idea of providing a surveillance service whilst also providing TWR when the idea was first mooted, I recall that there were limits on traffic (one at a time) so that the controller would not be providing both services at the same time. I think that, like many licensing 'policies' of the day, such limitations were relaxed quite quickly in certain circumstances - but, as I say, I've no idea how relaxed they've become.

For what it's worth, the last time I was at Charleroi I think there was a single controller doing both aerodrome control and vectoring inbounds but I don't know if that was the normal mode of operation.

sthomson 21st Mar 2022 23:30

Yes, there are several TWR's in New Zealand that provide both an aerodrome control and procedural approach control service. NZNV, NZDN, NZNS, NZNP, NZNR, NZGS.

Gonzo 22nd Mar 2022 18:10


Originally Posted by 2 sheds (Post 11203456)
They certainly should not have been doing that. Perhaps they had approval to do it from the aerodrome control room, otherwise....

2 s

Didn’t the night shift ATCO at Bournemouth fall over and break a leg one night while on duty about 20 years ago or am I imagining that?

chevvron 22nd Mar 2022 23:49


Originally Posted by Gonzo (Post 11204132)
Didn’t the night shift ATCO at Bournemouth fall over and break a leg one night while on duty about 20 years ago or am I imagining that?

I remember a case like that; don't know if it was Bournemouth (may have been Coventry) but the guy who fell downstairs couldn't move and it wasn't until an aircraft called and got no reply that the pilot managed to contact somebody at the airport and asked them to find out what had happened.
Apart from that, in the '70s no airfields in the north of Scotland had radar so the tower controller operated TWR and APP bandboxed; FISOs hadn't been invented so the tels officer was supposed to be trained to provide aerodrome information.

Ross182 23rd Mar 2022 09:23

Sorry not beeing specific and missleaded with the APP service. I ment APS... So TWR providing APS.. Radar services too.

chevvron 23rd Mar 2022 10:18


Originally Posted by Ross182 (Post 11204452)
Sorry not beeing specific and missleaded with the APP service. I ment APS... So TWR providing APS.. Radar services too.

Can be done in the UK under 'low traffic' conditions but I don't know the details as it happened after I retired in 2008.

mike current 23rd Mar 2022 11:42


Originally Posted by chevvron (Post 11204301)
Apart from that, in the '70s no airfields in the north of Scotland had radar so the tower controller operated TWR and APP bandboxed; FISOs hadn't been invented so the tels officer was supposed to be trained to provide aerodrome information.

Airfields in the North of Scotland still don't have radar, with the exception of Sumburgh and Inverness.

Morris542 23rd Mar 2022 18:42


Originally Posted by Ross182 (Post 11202655)
Hello,
Im working on my bachelor thesis and want to know if anyone know a place, where TWR provide an approach control (either whole app or in form of director). I can think of some Polish airfields such is Lublin (TWR controls traffic up to FL135).

Thank you

I'm sure the chap in Toulouse was doing both last time I was there (that was before COVID though so might not be the case now). Wasn't much traffic around and can't remember much other than our surprise that he was doing everything at quite a large airport.

kontrolor 24th Mar 2022 11:11

LJPZ, LJMB, LJCE

chevvron 24th Mar 2022 18:17


Originally Posted by Morris542 (Post 11204752)
I'm sure the chap in Toulouse was doing both last time I was there (that was before COVID though so might not be the case now). Wasn't much traffic around and can't remember much other than our surprise that he was doing everything at quite a large airport.

Just goes to show what an experienced ATCO can do.


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