ATC training in the 60s and 70s. 'Non-state' airports.

[chevvron]

Originally Posted by TCAS FAN

Believe it was a FTU (Field Training Unit). Did my APP rating exams there in late 60's and then Gatwick FTU for APS (as it now is) sim and rating exams in early 70s. Hurn also had an FTU, where I did some APP sim work prior to the rating exams.

There was one at Stansted too.

[Spiney Norman]

I’m not sure whether it had an FTU but I did my Approach Radar practical exam at Heathrow in the 70’s whilst going down the Luton/self study route. (Dicky Stokes was one of the examiners).Personally I was very grateful for the way my career panned out through following an ATSA to ATCO path. The grounding in all aspects of aviation served all of us extremely well. There were people at Luton during my time there who would not have been given the opportunity to fulfil their ambitions due to lack of educational qualifications but, because of the self study route and encouragement from Luton enjoyed excellent careers. I enjoyed working with you!

[almost professional]

I had a T shirt with ‘ I’m non state’ printed to wear at CATC on my aerodrome course in 1982 - as one of Lutons trainees tacked on the end of the NATS course, got me a meeting in the heads office.......
I fully agree with Spiney, we worked with people who would not have got a look in qualifications wise in certain organisations, but they could do the job and I was proud to work alongside.

[ex-EGLL]

Units used for training on my course (at least for ADC - nowadays ADV/ADI - training) were all NATS units plus Ronaldsway, Oxford and Jersey; I don't recall anyone off my course being sent to Leeds but I could be wrong as it's nearly 50 years ago.

You can add Luton to that list, I was on 28 course and did my Aerodrome validation at Luton in 1973/4

[2 sheds]

The term non-State was frequently used in a disparaging manner by some others, though one has to ask how else would you refer to those units collectively. It is a pity that they did not - and do not - club together to demand a positive term - any offers? It may not originally have been intended that way but was often used thus and was/is demeaning to refer to anything as a "non-...". Having been on both sides of the fence, I was amused and appalled to be told in all seriousness by some clot that my licence was not to the same standard as his as it was "non-State" - this at the time of my ANSP about to take over the contract at "his" airport! I would not have believed it had I not heard it first hand - quite apart from the fact that I had gained it in State employment, had more experience than the speaker and two more ratings!

2 s

[Roadrunner Once]

Originally Posted by 2 sheds

...one has to ask how else would you refer to those units collectively. It is a pity that they did not - and do not - club together to demand a positive term - any offers?

In all seriousness, what would be the point? There is no ‘State’ provider for airport services any more, so why define ‘non-State’? NATS NSL has long been just one of a number of commercial ANSPs touting for business in the UK and abroad.

[Mooncrest]

Any other airport ATC training establishments ? We've had Leeds Bradford, Luton, Southampton and Blackpool so far.

[TCAS FAN]

Originally Posted by Mooncrest

Any other airport ATC training establishments ? We've had Leeds Bradford, Luton, Southampton and Blackpool so far.

Should have mentioned the now disused Hamble which operated with TWR and APP and gave me the MER plus access to the College of Air Training ground school to enable me to get through the Technical Exam, TWR and APP ratings. Followed by at least two more ATCAs who followed the same route.

[escaped.atco]

Originally Posted by 2 sheds

The term non-State was frequently used in a disparaging manner by some others, though one has to ask how else would you refer to those units collectively. It is a pity that they did not - and do not - club together to demand a positive term - any offers? It may not originally have been intended that way but was often used thus and was/is demeaning to refer to anything as a "non-...". Having been on both sides of the fence, I was amused and appalled to be told in all seriousness by some clot that my licence was not to the same standard as his as it was "non-State" - this at the time of my ANSP about to take over the contract at "his" airport! I would not have believed it had I not heard it first hand - quite apart from the fact that I had gained it in State employment, had more experience that the speaker and two more ratings!

2 s

Having also been on both sides I have also come across this mythical divide. The phrase these days is non-NATS units, must admit I prefer the term "independent unit". I have also been sneered at by these superior beings because my identical licence was obtained elsewhere. Not sure what its like now but I know that NATS students some years ago were told they were the best from the very beginning. This was people that were just in the door and hadn't controlled an aircraft but were being told they were the cream of the crop because of the recruitment process. In fairness the genuinely good NATS trainees made good controllers, the poorer ones went straight to management roles. Although thats probably the same today!

[almost professional]

The whole ‘them and us’ thing was much less prevalent in recent years, I always found asking to be shown how their licence differed from mine worked..... However did sometimes get the feeling that the centres had a ‘but they are not NATS units’ attitude - on the odd occasion we got a liaison visit from NATS staff they tended to be amazed at what the provincial non NATS unit had to offer.

[Fly Through]

SECOATS @ Manston but not actually part of the airport operation.