ATC Issues A place where pilots may enter the 'lions den' that is Air Traffic Control in complete safety and find out the answers to all those obscure topics which you always wanted to know the answer to but were afraid to ask.

SRATCOH new rules

Old 25th Nov 2019, 17:23
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: far far away
Posts: 28
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but are unit ORs not determined by the calculation as listed in CAP670? This lists the positions to be manned and the hours etc. In the smaller units management will now be able to say that less staff are needed and therefore the unit OR can be reduced. Voila - current ATCO shortage cured overnight - simples! The larger ANSP in the UK has various agreements with its staff, starting at certain times for morning shifts restricts the number of hours that individual can work for example. If SRATCOH disappears then I'm sure Prospect will be happy to give up the various agreements that were brought in to prevent fatigue and ensure controllers were fresh for duty. This will be a wet dream for management and bean counters!
escaped.atco is offline  
Old 29th Nov 2019, 19:43
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: wherever will have me
Posts: 703
Guys, you need to read the organisation requirements in Annex IV 'Part-ATS to Implementing Regulation (EU) No 2017/373. I think that it's the' 300 series' organisation requirements which cover fatigue and rostering.

The EU will require ATC service providers to develop a fatigue risk management policy and associated watch rostering system. The CAA plans to publish a new 'human performance' CAP which will include, amongst other items, most of the content of SRATCOH from CAP 670. The plan (as someone mentioned earlier) is that this will act as guidance material for service providers. If they base their policies on the guidance in the new CAP then it gets the rubber stamp. If they want to develop something new then they can but it will be subject to greater scrutiny.

As mentioned earlier, SRATCOH was designed to deal with the Heathrows of this world, in other places it's too heavy handed. The challenge will be for the inspectors to keep an eye on those who might seek to use this as an opportunity for skullduggery.
whowhenwhy is offline  
Old 29th Nov 2019, 20:14
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: LHR/EGLL
Age: 40
Posts: 4,312
Now now, WWW, you know that we don’t do facts here!
Gonzo is offline  
Old 29th Nov 2019, 22:20
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: wherever will have me
Posts: 703
Sorry, what was I thinking. Have had a stern word with myself. Normal service will be resumed soon.
whowhenwhy is offline  
Old 30th Nov 2019, 18:06
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 64
Sure if itís a quiet period you can arguably stay plugged in for longer without suffering fatigue (which straight away reduces the minimum OR) but what about comfort breaks when youíre the only ATCO on duty valid on that position?
callum91 is offline  
Old 1st Dec 2019, 11:18
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: South of England
Posts: 1,066
SRATCOH was designed to deal with the Heathrows of this world
With respect, I don't think that is accurate. It was/is probably needed just as much, if not more so, at other units.

2 s
2 sheds is offline  
Old 1st Dec 2019, 12:16
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Age: 54
Posts: 111
Originally Posted by 2 sheds View Post
With respect, I don't think that is accurate. It was/is probably needed just as much, if not more so, at other units.

2 s
I agree - when I started, we worked the old 4 watch "A-M/N-S-O" system, which was very fatiguing as traffic changed (as busy at night as during the day). Without regulation of hours, I doubt very much that would have changed, the airport management would have seen it as a cost at a time when money was tight enough anyway. The CAA units, as it was, were already working to what became the norm anyway.
alfaman is offline  
Old 1st Dec 2019, 12:27
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: South of England
Posts: 1,066
we worked the old 4 watch "A-M/N-S-O" system, which was very fatiguing
Or to put it another way, b***** criminal!

2 s
2 sheds is offline  
Old 1st Dec 2019, 16:24
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Herefordshire
Posts: 1,002
whowhenwhy

Please excuse a retired old git coming in on this again! I'm with 2sheds, Scratcoh was NOT brought in for Heathrow - I have no recollection of it being discussed there until it was implemented. As I said above I think a couple of airfields, maybe Roborough and Lands End ( I could be wrong here ) were having staffing difficulties, hence long hours for the validated controller/s. One of the main men in GATCO at that time was one of my colleagues at Heathrow and being an erudite chap he was probably involved in the discussions with SRG or whoever.

We worked MMAANN/various DAY duties with the old D1 starting at 0800, 10 hours after the end of the A shift ( if you didn't get an EG ) - I think most people were happy with that particularly as your 4 days off ran together and even started early with a 1430/1500 finish on the last day of six. I don't think many people liked having a day off between the second A and the D1.

Maybe Talkdown Man and Heathrow Director remember more?

Last edited by Brian 48nav; 1st Dec 2019 at 16:26. Reason: Addition
Brian 48nav is offline  
Old 1st Dec 2019, 23:55
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: On the wireless...
Posts: 1,880
Originally Posted by Brian 48nav View Post
Maybe Talkdown Man and Heathrow Director remember more?
I remember you.

Frank


ISTR that when LATCC went on to the AAOMMNNSOO, Heathrow went straight on to the MMAANNSOOO. Not sure Heathrow ever did the former. I think there was a day off between the second Afternoon and the D1s because they weren't separated, MMAAOD1D1OOO. Hated nights, hated D1s, I was a 'late days' man, nearly always got them...probably because I did the rostering...well, nobody else seemed to want them! Could do a lot before a 1600 start. Used to do about three hours flight instruction before a D4 or D5...until the secondary employment restrictions were introduced.
Talkdownman is offline  
Old 4th Dec 2019, 17:10
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: wherever will have me
Posts: 703
Brian48 Nav et al, apologies if I have it wrong about LHR being the origins of SRATCOH, I can only go off what I was told. The rest of what I mentioned though is gen
whowhenwhy is offline  
Old 4th Dec 2019, 18:07
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 1,798
There's some background information on the development of SRATCOH in the following link:-

https://atchistory.wordpress.com/201...ng-paper-1977/
spekesoftly is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.