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Old 11th Jan 2020, 05:49
  #121 (permalink)  
 
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We started as 23 ATCO Cadets and 16 graduated 3 years later; one dropped out at the end of the 4 week initial course; didn't even do his PPL course; he was a non state ex ATCA; the rest of the intake were half and half ex ATCAs and direct entrants and about the same ratio graduated.
But we were all 'aircraft enthusiasts' to some level.
Having said that, on our 'sim' course in year 3, we were divided into crews of 3 (it was a Trident sim and the 'normal' flight deck crew of a Trident was 3) and although I enjoyed every minute, the other 2 in my crew made it plain they both thought it was a waste of time; they were to be professional controllers not professsional pilots.
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Old 11th Jan 2020, 08:37
  #122 (permalink)  
 
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Watch Manager EGLL on the NATS site

Looks like direct entry Watch Manager position on the NATS recruitment site. Does this mean no internal candidates!!!
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Old 11th Jan 2020, 08:47
  #123 (permalink)  
 
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Funnily enough, I was one of those who did not particularly enjoy the Trident course. Not because I thought of myself as a controller & not a pilot : but because the whole thing was too much of a "push button" & automated experience; not "real" flying. Betrayed my attitude towards computers - even then ! I well remember our instructor (an ex WW2 pilot - type who crawled out on the wing to extinguish a fire), asking me if I was a slow learner. He had a point, I had no interest in the "automated" cockpit. But, back to the "qualities" of ATCOS; my point is that a love of aviation got a lot of us through the training & encouraged us to think outside the strictures of "the loop" when it came to controlling. When we retired, we were missed in my local environment. Several "old school" pilots said as much to our faces. It was gratifying to have had our efforts recognised in that manner !
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Old 11th Jan 2020, 14:40
  #124 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by kcockayne
When we retired, we were missed in my local environment. Several "old school" pilots said as much to our faces. It was gratifying to have had our efforts recognised in that manner !
When it was announced I was retiring, at least 2 professional pilots expressed their appreciation of my work, one of them being chief Test Pilot at WHL.
After I retired from Farnborough, I lasted about 2 weeks before getting bored and starting work as a FISO at Fairoaks; this caused great confusion amongst locally based pilots who kept thinking they had selected the wrong frequency when my voice came up on the Fairoaks frequency. I was still getting queries about 2 years later 'didn't you used to be at Farnborough'?
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Old 13th Jan 2020, 00:15
  #125 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by chevvron
I was still getting queries about 2 years later 'didn't you used to be at Farnborough'?
Theres certainly no way anyone that has even heard or pprune would not know you used to work at Farnborough. My cat even knows you used to work at Farnborough.
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Old 17th Jan 2020, 09:12
  #126 (permalink)  
 
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I see NATS are advertising for experienced approach and tower controllers for Hong Kong. Unfortunately there is no mention of salary and allowances. Anyone care to shed some light?
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Old 20th Jan 2020, 20:03
  #127 (permalink)  
 
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NCL looking again
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Old 20th Jan 2020, 22:18
  #128 (permalink)  
 
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Newcastle jobs

Job (s) going at Newcastle again. Wonít let me post the link, details on job train.
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Old 21st Jan 2020, 06:20
  #129 (permalink)  
 
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Lots of jobs at NCL - Seven ATCO's just resigned! Tread carefully!
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Old 21st Jan 2020, 07:35
  #130 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by frilsy
Job (s) going at Newcastle again. Wonít let me post the link, details on job train.
From the ad:
Salary: £Competetive
And yet people are apparently flooding out the door! How strange. Is there something else at play here, or is there a reason they are being so coy about the salary?
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Old 21st Jan 2020, 17:45
  #131 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 10 DME ARC
Lots of jobs at NCL - Seven ATCO's just resigned! Tread carefully!
*8 lost in 6 months I believe (though some retirement.) 1/3ish of the workforce. Thatís got to hurt....
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Old 21st Jan 2020, 18:03
  #132 (permalink)  
 
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Ouch..considering it takes up to 5 months..inc.notice and training to validate positions? Could be an interesting summer?
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Old 21st Jan 2020, 18:06
  #133 (permalink)  
 
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Hello guys,
Anybody know how can apply for Swanwick Area Control Centre?
I have previously experience as an ATC about 3 years abroad but my license is not valid anymore
I am in Bournemouth, close to Area Control Centre.Maybe to have some appointments??

Thank You
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Old 21st Jan 2020, 22:59
  #134 (permalink)  
 
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NCL

Hi,
does anyone at Newcastle have information on what the story is there and what they are offering? Thanks in advance for any PMís
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Old 21st Jan 2020, 23:05
  #135 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 10 DME ARC
Lots of jobs at NCL - Seven ATCO's just resigned! Tread carefully!
So a few have retired, surely there would have been some form of forward planning - retirement isn't exactly a surprise and most ATCOs would make their plans clear months in advance. So what's the real story here? Getting caught on the hop with 8 resignations is poor management, poor because the ATCOs got fed up and left or poor because there was no training in place to ensure there were no major gaps in cover!
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Old 21st Jan 2020, 23:09
  #136 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by highwideandugly
Ouch..considering it takes up to 5 months..inc.notice and training to validate positions? Could be an interesting summer?
I have no idea what the training system is at Newcastle but 5 months is a tad optimistic! Most of the larger airports have a 3 month notice period so even if someone was to accept a job now it'll be April before they start, valid in 2 months? I would have thought 8 resignations has probably also affected the training capability of the unit, wonder how many of those left have OJTI endorsements? And are they prepared to train multiple controllers in a very intense time period along with the pressures that brings?
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Old 23rd Jan 2020, 08:25
  #137 (permalink)  
 
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Previous posts a new management structure..very inexperienced..maybe something to do with it?
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Old 23rd Jan 2020, 10:57
  #138 (permalink)  
 
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No idea what the situation is at NCL. But the fact is that experienced ATCOs can basically go wherever they want now. So the smaller units are naturally going to struggle.

A few years ago the gaps were being filled by military ATCOs retraining. That seems to be drying up. Then there were queues of self funders with Student ADI tickets, that seems to have dried up too, especially now the cost of a course has doubled...

There arenít enough ATCOs to meet the demand in the UK. Ultimately, if regional airports want to prevent their Controllers heading elsewhere they need to make their units more attractive, or they will not retain staff. Itís as simple as that...
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Old 23rd Jan 2020, 11:13
  #139 (permalink)  
 
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The irony is that when controllers leave, they take with them a lot of local knowledge and experience that simply can't be replicated in a few months training. New staff bring new dynamics to a unit, not always positive! New staff may arrive from smaller units and use their new unit purely as a stepping stone to better things therefore they have no vested interest in their new surroundings, their OJTIs are well aware of this and therefore resent putting a lot of training effort into someone who has no intention of staying. Morale continues to decrease amongst the original staff, perhaps more retire or leave - the cycle continues until you gave a very unhappy and unsettled place to work. Its sad but I have seen it happen.

I agree with Coffee above - if management ignore the human interface within a unit then they will suffer the consequences at some point, particularly as the market is so positive for ATCOs at this time. I don't know what the current pay and terms and conditions are at Newcastle but I do recall in years past it always had a relatively stable staffing level and seemed to be a good place to work. Fascinating how a few changes can have such a major impact on a unit!
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Old 23rd Jan 2020, 14:14
  #140 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Cleared For A Coffee
There arenít enough ATCOs to meet the demand in the UK. Ultimately, if regional airports want to prevent their Controllers heading elsewhere they need to make their units more attractive, or they will not retain staff. Itís as simple as that...
I expect this is the nub. There are a few regional airports that need to wake up to reality.
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