F15 Court Martial (Merged thread)
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Thank goodness it is all over, everyone involved has obviously been through their own personal hell, but at least you can all put this behind you in the knowledge that it is finished and an innocent man can can walk tall and free.
Justice has been done.
Justice has been done.
Spot & family.
Just seen the outcome on BBC East.
At last this fiasco is over, we can only guess what you and your family have been through, but it must have been hell.
Well done to you, your team, the guys who gave us the daily updates and Richard Dawson and co from GATCO. As to those doubters at the start of this nonsense who refered to GATCO being part of Touchdown, have you joined yet!!! I for one would gladly pay twice the subscription to prevent this happening again.
p.s. Spot, Seeing you on tele, I think your uniform must have shrunk in the wash!!!
Cheers
Just seen the outcome on BBC East.
At last this fiasco is over, we can only guess what you and your family have been through, but it must have been hell.
Well done to you, your team, the guys who gave us the daily updates and Richard Dawson and co from GATCO. As to those doubters at the start of this nonsense who refered to GATCO being part of Touchdown, have you joined yet!!! I for one would gladly pay twice the subscription to prevent this happening again.
p.s. Spot, Seeing you on tele, I think your uniform must have shrunk in the wash!!!
Cheers
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Congratulations
Spot, Sue and family
Great news, congratulations - it seems ages since I was last over whilst working in your area , in fact it was just over 6 weeks ago you had just got back from London.
Even then I don't think anyone expected the case to last so long. We have all followed events every day on the web site, even the girls asked for updates every day.
I realise that it could so easily have been us there instead of you. I hope that no family has to go through the sort of experience you have all been through these past months.
I hope now you can put this all behind you and get back to normality though I expect that will not be easy.
Look forward to seeing you all soon.
Love & best wishes
SJKAZ
Great news, congratulations - it seems ages since I was last over whilst working in your area , in fact it was just over 6 weeks ago you had just got back from London.
Even then I don't think anyone expected the case to last so long. We have all followed events every day on the web site, even the girls asked for updates every day.
I realise that it could so easily have been us there instead of you. I hope that no family has to go through the sort of experience you have all been through these past months.
I hope now you can put this all behind you and get back to normality though I expect that will not be easy.
Look forward to seeing you all soon.
Love & best wishes
SJKAZ
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YES !!! CONGRATULATIONS !!!
Justice at last !!
Warmest congratulatins to Spot and Family after this farce comes to an end.
Sincere thanks to Mickydrip and Dick Doleman who kept an entire League of 'Spot'ers clinging to Prune for updates.
Spot and Sue, as said many times, I've never met you, but hope you can now get on with the rest of your lives.
ps Any chance of a signed copy of the book ?
Warmest congratulatins to Spot and Family after this farce comes to an end.
Sincere thanks to Mickydrip and Dick Doleman who kept an entire League of 'Spot'ers clinging to Prune for updates.
Spot and Sue, as said many times, I've never met you, but hope you can now get on with the rest of your lives.
ps Any chance of a signed copy of the book ?
Music Quizmeister
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Congratulations Spot - the only possible outcome!!!!
Well done to the "court reporters" for keeping us all so well informed.
Scran
WGCDR ATC RAAF
Well done to the "court reporters" for keeping us all so well informed.
Scran
WGCDR ATC RAAF
Everybody's gotta be somewhere
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Dear Spot and Mrs Spot,
Wonderful news, at last you can have your life back.
Thank you to Mickeydrip and Dick Doleman for the reporting and to pprune for the forum.
Congratulations to a superb defense team.
DD
Wonderful news, at last you can have your life back.
Thank you to Mickeydrip and Dick Doleman for the reporting and to pprune for the forum.
Congratulations to a superb defense team.
DD
Justice...
Congratulations Spot. I hope that you and Sue can make it back quietly and successfully to the real world from the traumas you have been through.
God Bless
Chris
God Bless
Chris
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Spot, I echo the many sentiments of all the other posters by saying many congratulations on being found NOT guilty on all 'charges'.
I wish you and Sue all the best for the future.
With beer in hand....
Cheers
Dave
I wish you and Sue all the best for the future.
With beer in hand....
Cheers
Dave
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Thanks to the efforts of Pprune Radar I and the other Mods of the more obscure forums were alerted to this saga. We have thus been able to both follow the intricacies of the trial (many, many thanks to the court reporters!) and be amazed at the network of support that centred on Pprune. It, for me at least, was a humbling experience and I find it difficult to express how pleased I am at the outcome, and how proud I am at the way our community came together in Spot's aid and defence.
Well done to all of you, and congratulations to Spot and Sue. I hope your lives return to normal soonest!
Scroggs
Virgin/Wannabes Moderator
[email protected]
Well done to all of you, and congratulations to Spot and Sue. I hope your lives return to normal soonest!
Scroggs
Virgin/Wannabes Moderator
[email protected]
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A PERSONAL MESSAGE TO THE CHIEF OF AIR STAFF...
Dear Sir Peter,
After 36 years of loyal and dedicated service in the Royal Air Force as a multi-engine pilot, I feel ashamed that Flt Lt Malcolm Williams and his family should have been put through such an ordeal.
The need for such action beggars belief. RIS has a clear cut definition; that 2 Allied pilots died as a result of CFIT is tragic enough, without compounding the situation by hounding the last man to speak to them.
What was to be gained by the Court Martial? The only certain result was to further damage the already fragile morale of the Service that we both love and respect - the Service for which we both volunteered and enjoyed so much. Now we have the situation where there will be a wholesale review of air traffic services - a loss of flexibility, an enforcement of rigid procedures that will reduce the freedom of action of our front line crews. This action has been a disaster; what air traffic controller is going to help a crew if it means there is the possibility of future legal action? You simply cannot do your job if you are keeping one eye on the law books.
I am afraid that political correctness is seriously damaging the Royal Air Force and its effectiveness to carry out our primary role. It is time for common sense to be applied to all aspects of our life - it is time to say 'stop: let's just think about his for a minute'.
We have lost a valuable member of the team - how can this officer feel anything other than bitterness at his treatment at the hands of the service that he has served so loyally? If it were me, you would not see me for dust - there are plenty of other outfits who would treat me in a better way. It remains to be seen whether or not Flt Lt Williams feels as aggrieved as many of us would - I watch this space with interest.
Sir Peter, I am sure that you read these pages personally - I would be greatly surprised if you ignore such a valuable source of feedback from your people. Please heed the message given by me and the hundreds of others who contribute to these pages - common sense must be allowed to prevail in the Royal Air Force of today.
I am more than willing to reveal my identity to you if you wish to send me a personal message....
FJJP
Dear Sir Peter,
After 36 years of loyal and dedicated service in the Royal Air Force as a multi-engine pilot, I feel ashamed that Flt Lt Malcolm Williams and his family should have been put through such an ordeal.
The need for such action beggars belief. RIS has a clear cut definition; that 2 Allied pilots died as a result of CFIT is tragic enough, without compounding the situation by hounding the last man to speak to them.
What was to be gained by the Court Martial? The only certain result was to further damage the already fragile morale of the Service that we both love and respect - the Service for which we both volunteered and enjoyed so much. Now we have the situation where there will be a wholesale review of air traffic services - a loss of flexibility, an enforcement of rigid procedures that will reduce the freedom of action of our front line crews. This action has been a disaster; what air traffic controller is going to help a crew if it means there is the possibility of future legal action? You simply cannot do your job if you are keeping one eye on the law books.
I am afraid that political correctness is seriously damaging the Royal Air Force and its effectiveness to carry out our primary role. It is time for common sense to be applied to all aspects of our life - it is time to say 'stop: let's just think about his for a minute'.
We have lost a valuable member of the team - how can this officer feel anything other than bitterness at his treatment at the hands of the service that he has served so loyally? If it were me, you would not see me for dust - there are plenty of other outfits who would treat me in a better way. It remains to be seen whether or not Flt Lt Williams feels as aggrieved as many of us would - I watch this space with interest.
Sir Peter, I am sure that you read these pages personally - I would be greatly surprised if you ignore such a valuable source of feedback from your people. Please heed the message given by me and the hundreds of others who contribute to these pages - common sense must be allowed to prevail in the Royal Air Force of today.
I am more than willing to reveal my identity to you if you wish to send me a personal message....
FJJP
Just a numbered other
Well said FJJP
Fanbloodytastic news Spot.
There will be some senior crab heads which should be hung in abject shame tonight, and commissions resigned first thing tomorrow.
Those who chose to ignore and then hide the clear evidence which pointed to Flt Lt Williams's obvious innocence are not worthy to share mess space, or to wear the same uniform as so many honourable people.
Take them for every penny, Spot.
Arky.............ashamed to have ever been associated with the kind of people who could have put you through this.
Fanbloodytastic news Spot.
There will be some senior crab heads which should be hung in abject shame tonight, and commissions resigned first thing tomorrow.
Those who chose to ignore and then hide the clear evidence which pointed to Flt Lt Williams's obvious innocence are not worthy to share mess space, or to wear the same uniform as so many honourable people.
Take them for every penny, Spot.
Arky.............ashamed to have ever been associated with the kind of people who could have put you through this.
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Congratulations
Spot & Sue
Congratulations on the end of your ordeal, a just outcome at last. Thank you to all who reported this event and kept us in the picture the tension has been horrid out here, heavens knows how you and yours survived the whole thing. The MoD now look like the vindictive, incompetent idiots and have only themselves to blame for what was some sort of witch hunt, only they will know why they pressed forward with this, perhaps they thought you would roll over and give up, they have obviously not met you or Sue!! Anyway well done, now time for some relaxation, perhaps you might consider reforming the ERD Glee Club for one more performance!!! On reflection perhaps not. Thanks again to all involved in your team.
Mark B
Congratulations on the end of your ordeal, a just outcome at last. Thank you to all who reported this event and kept us in the picture the tension has been horrid out here, heavens knows how you and yours survived the whole thing. The MoD now look like the vindictive, incompetent idiots and have only themselves to blame for what was some sort of witch hunt, only they will know why they pressed forward with this, perhaps they thought you would roll over and give up, they have obviously not met you or Sue!! Anyway well done, now time for some relaxation, perhaps you might consider reforming the ERD Glee Club for one more performance!!! On reflection perhaps not. Thanks again to all involved in your team.
Mark B
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Spot and Sue
My congratulations to you both.
For once the judicial system has worked. The one and only true verdict was recorded.
Spot, when you get ove rthe hangover, put it all behind you andcontinue to be the true professional that you are.
My congratulations to you both.
For once the judicial system has worked. The one and only true verdict was recorded.
Spot, when you get ove rthe hangover, put it all behind you andcontinue to be the true professional that you are.
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Spot and Sue
Hallelujah, glad the nightmare is now over. Hold your heads up for the dignified way you have put up with this farce. There's a dram or two hidden away for you when you're ready ...
To the defence team - bloody well done - the whole of ATC owes you a debt of gratitude, particularly for standing up to military bullies.
To the reporter who called the prosecution 'a load of bollocks'
... the pen is mightier than four stripes on your shoulder
To the military legal eagles who went ahead with this against all common sense and advice. Get a copy of the Ladybird book of Justice, and read it, particularly the bit about evidence. Then start looking over your shoulders, because you deserve to be pursued and brought to account for your actions. You cannot hide behind the military wall of silence.
To the RAF powers that be. Both my dad (exWW2) and I, as ex-RAF members feel you have stood aside and by your inaction, attempted to condemn an innocent man. You have besmirched the good name of the RAF. Well done, you will probably be named as the reason for the next ATC manpower crisis.
To the USAF - you surely owe the families of the aircrew an apology and an explanation. They are in all our thoughts at this time.
To pprune, DD, MD, Disco et al. Thanks for empowering us and letting the net be used to ensure the truth got out.
To all ATCOs (mil and civil). What would happen to YOU if your employer dumped you and then tried to stitch you up ? Would you be covered ?
Off to have some more mustard ..... with my whisky
Ham
Hallelujah, glad the nightmare is now over. Hold your heads up for the dignified way you have put up with this farce. There's a dram or two hidden away for you when you're ready ...
To the defence team - bloody well done - the whole of ATC owes you a debt of gratitude, particularly for standing up to military bullies.
To the reporter who called the prosecution 'a load of bollocks'
... the pen is mightier than four stripes on your shoulderTo the military legal eagles who went ahead with this against all common sense and advice. Get a copy of the Ladybird book of Justice, and read it, particularly the bit about evidence. Then start looking over your shoulders, because you deserve to be pursued and brought to account for your actions. You cannot hide behind the military wall of silence.
To the RAF powers that be. Both my dad (exWW2) and I, as ex-RAF members feel you have stood aside and by your inaction, attempted to condemn an innocent man. You have besmirched the good name of the RAF. Well done, you will probably be named as the reason for the next ATC manpower crisis.
To the USAF - you surely owe the families of the aircrew an apology and an explanation. They are in all our thoughts at this time.
To pprune, DD, MD, Disco et al. Thanks for empowering us and letting the net be used to ensure the truth got out.
To all ATCOs (mil and civil). What would happen to YOU if your employer dumped you and then tried to stitch you up ? Would you be covered ?
Off to have some more mustard ..... with my whisky
Ham
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Review?
BBC News website says-
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/2797511.stm
"RAF spokesman Richard Mulford said there would be a review."
Who is this spokesperson?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/2797511.stm
"RAF spokesman Richard Mulford said there would be a review."
Who is this spokesperson?
Thread Starter
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Thanks everyone!
Just a few words to close my part in this saga.
When I posted the first message on Pprune in late June last year, I had no idea that there would be such a ground-swell of support for Spot and his predicament. Two reasons spring to mind; Spot and Sue are such down to earth, genuine people that they have gained the respect and friendship of a lot of people over the years. Additionally, we all could see ourselves in their shoes, having tried to do our absolute best in dreadful personal circumstances only to find the care, support and help melted away when it was so desperately needed.
My reason for choosing the medium of the Internet and especially the aviation-orientated Pprune site was to advertise to the aviation world, quite openly, that a serious injustice was about to be done, by the Airforce, to one of their own. Looking back, it seems unbelievable that they should even have contemplated such an action, and against one of their most loyal and professional subjects. I have always had an aversion to the bully; he likes to take the little guy around the back of the bike sheds and out of sight of others. It struck me that the RAF wanted to deal with Spot as quietly as possible, hopefully getting him to take the blame for this tragedy, out of everyone’s view. Thanks to Pprune and it contributors that was not to be.
On a closing note I’d especially like to thank my friends in the support group, in and out of uniform, for their outstanding support throughout. One name that hasn’t been mentioned is Chris Stock, a past President of GATCO; it was Chris that I phoned very soon after the accident, to get him on our side. He kindly got the financial ball rolling, which was later picked up so well by Brian Young and the current GATCO President Richard Dawson. Spot’s sister Barbara and her husband John also deserve our praise; they’ve attended the CM every day and have given Spot and Sue their unfailing support. What can I say about Dick Doleman and Al Turner?; bloody good friends to have by your side; thanks both. Finally, thanks to all of you for contributing so freely; the support group postings were read, each and every one of them, over breakfast and we all drew enormous comfort from them.
To Spot and Sue, it’s been a nightmare but this part is over; the next challenge is to get your lives back on track - not easy!
Good luck for the future.
Mike Tasker (aka Mickydrip - an old Scouse term of abuse!)
When I posted the first message on Pprune in late June last year, I had no idea that there would be such a ground-swell of support for Spot and his predicament. Two reasons spring to mind; Spot and Sue are such down to earth, genuine people that they have gained the respect and friendship of a lot of people over the years. Additionally, we all could see ourselves in their shoes, having tried to do our absolute best in dreadful personal circumstances only to find the care, support and help melted away when it was so desperately needed.
My reason for choosing the medium of the Internet and especially the aviation-orientated Pprune site was to advertise to the aviation world, quite openly, that a serious injustice was about to be done, by the Airforce, to one of their own. Looking back, it seems unbelievable that they should even have contemplated such an action, and against one of their most loyal and professional subjects. I have always had an aversion to the bully; he likes to take the little guy around the back of the bike sheds and out of sight of others. It struck me that the RAF wanted to deal with Spot as quietly as possible, hopefully getting him to take the blame for this tragedy, out of everyone’s view. Thanks to Pprune and it contributors that was not to be.
On a closing note I’d especially like to thank my friends in the support group, in and out of uniform, for their outstanding support throughout. One name that hasn’t been mentioned is Chris Stock, a past President of GATCO; it was Chris that I phoned very soon after the accident, to get him on our side. He kindly got the financial ball rolling, which was later picked up so well by Brian Young and the current GATCO President Richard Dawson. Spot’s sister Barbara and her husband John also deserve our praise; they’ve attended the CM every day and have given Spot and Sue their unfailing support. What can I say about Dick Doleman and Al Turner?; bloody good friends to have by your side; thanks both. Finally, thanks to all of you for contributing so freely; the support group postings were read, each and every one of them, over breakfast and we all drew enormous comfort from them.
To Spot and Sue, it’s been a nightmare but this part is over; the next challenge is to get your lives back on track - not easy!
Good luck for the future.
Mike Tasker (aka Mickydrip - an old Scouse term of abuse!)
Last edited by Mickydrip; 26th Feb 2003 at 07:49.
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Thanks Mickydrip
As the one who got this thread rolling, you deserve a big thank you for the part you have played in reaching yesterday's successful conclusion.
Your choice of media for the message was "Spot on" and we all watched in awe as it became the focus of a groundswell of support and sympathy worldwide. All of us in the aviation/ATC field are professional people with a keen sense of pride in what we do and a knowledge of right and wrong. Hence people reading this thread didn't need to know Spot personally to offer their support - on the contrary, many of the contributors were not even serving Mil ATCOs.
Nevertheless, a real sense of compassion and unity has flowed from these pages in the months since your initial posting which has been a joy to behold. I for one have felt proud to part of this community and would not be at all surprised if this forum continues to be a focus of attention for those of us "on the shopfloor".
Thanks again Mike for being the one to take the first step and get the whole thing going.
Your choice of media for the message was "Spot on" and we all watched in awe as it became the focus of a groundswell of support and sympathy worldwide. All of us in the aviation/ATC field are professional people with a keen sense of pride in what we do and a knowledge of right and wrong. Hence people reading this thread didn't need to know Spot personally to offer their support - on the contrary, many of the contributors were not even serving Mil ATCOs.
Nevertheless, a real sense of compassion and unity has flowed from these pages in the months since your initial posting which has been a joy to behold. I for one have felt proud to part of this community and would not be at all surprised if this forum continues to be a focus of attention for those of us "on the shopfloor".
Thanks again Mike for being the one to take the first step and get the whole thing going.
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To Mickydrip ...
Terminal Man sums it up superbly.
A very big thankyou to yourself and Dick in particular, not forgetting the rest of the 'official' Spot Support Team.
The updates were dramatic and fascinating. God only knows what Spot and Mrs Spot went through, as it was traumatic enough for me just reading Prune !
Thanks once again, and enjoy your share of the limelight in Spot's sucessful outcome.
Guess you've done more for 'Spotters' recently than high-power lenses could ever do !!
A very big thankyou to yourself and Dick in particular, not forgetting the rest of the 'official' Spot Support Team.
The updates were dramatic and fascinating. God only knows what Spot and Mrs Spot went through, as it was traumatic enough for me just reading Prune !
Thanks once again, and enjoy your share of the limelight in Spot's sucessful outcome.
Guess you've done more for 'Spotters' recently than high-power lenses could ever do !!
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Spot and Sue,
Eleanor and I have been praying for you daily and we're relieved and delighted that justice has prevailed. It's good to see that the truth was enough to see the right verdict reached. We can't begin to imagine the trauma you, Sue and the kids have gone through, but at least you can begin to get some degree of normacy back, not that you could ever be described as normal!!
Love to you both,
Stuart and Eleanor.
Eleanor and I have been praying for you daily and we're relieved and delighted that justice has prevailed. It's good to see that the truth was enough to see the right verdict reached. We can't begin to imagine the trauma you, Sue and the kids have gone through, but at least you can begin to get some degree of normacy back, not that you could ever be described as normal!!
Love to you both,
Stuart and Eleanor.