F15 Court Martial (Merged thread)
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What Next??
All the very best to Spot and co for tomorrow.
Whilst we must pray for a sensible outcome to the CM, let's not forget what the implications of a verdict either way could be. Most importantly of all, the pain, suffering and just plain sweat of all directly involved over the last 2 years must not be allowed to fizzle-out after the result is delivered.
How we resolve these lessons remains to be seen, but resolve them we must.
Whether rules need to be re-written, simplified, left alone but amplified, changed entirely.....
It is refreshing to see that 'baby ATCOs' are publishing their support - I wonder how many baby ATCOs we will have this time next year?
Whilst we must pray for a sensible outcome to the CM, let's not forget what the implications of a verdict either way could be. Most importantly of all, the pain, suffering and just plain sweat of all directly involved over the last 2 years must not be allowed to fizzle-out after the result is delivered.
How we resolve these lessons remains to be seen, but resolve them we must.
Whether rules need to be re-written, simplified, left alone but amplified, changed entirely.....
It is refreshing to see that 'baby ATCOs' are publishing their support - I wonder how many baby ATCOs we will have this time next year?
Music Quizmeister
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Spot,
Having read the excellent summaries by the other guys, and knowing only what I have seen on these two threads, I await with eagerness news of your acquittal early this week.
I can see no other result.
Good Luck!!!
Scran
RAAF ATC WGCDR
Australia
Having read the excellent summaries by the other guys, and knowing only what I have seen on these two threads, I await with eagerness news of your acquittal early this week.
I can see no other result.
Good Luck!!!
Scran
RAAF ATC WGCDR
Australia
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Spot & Sue,
It's nearly over! It has been awful not to be with you but thanks to the team posting daily updates - we have been there. You are constantly in our thoughts and we look forward to the conclusion next week and we have our glasses ready. Speak to you soon, all our love,
Pam, Willie & Melanie xxx
It's nearly over! It has been awful not to be with you but thanks to the team posting daily updates - we have been there. You are constantly in our thoughts and we look forward to the conclusion next week and we have our glasses ready. Speak to you soon, all our love,
Pam, Willie & Melanie xxx
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Best wishes.....
Spot, for getting me wazzed on my stag night and b*****ed for making tomato juice marks of the Mess Bar ceiling - thanks!!
When I went to Cranwell, the one thing that stuck in my mind in the Air Force Law lectures was that 'justice should be done, should be seen to be done and should be seen to be done quickly'. On all these counts the RAF has been plain disingenuous and has failed dismally with regard to this whole investigation. Sadly, I worry that you may be the first, but you won't be the last to have to go through something like this - glad I'm no longer an RAF ATCO..... and God help the RAF ATC Branch.
You have been abysmally treated in this whole debacle but I am sure that the verdict will be the right one and that next week you and your family can start to rebuild your lives.
God Bless
SM
When I went to Cranwell, the one thing that stuck in my mind in the Air Force Law lectures was that 'justice should be done, should be seen to be done and should be seen to be done quickly'. On all these counts the RAF has been plain disingenuous and has failed dismally with regard to this whole investigation. Sadly, I worry that you may be the first, but you won't be the last to have to go through something like this - glad I'm no longer an RAF ATCO..... and God help the RAF ATC Branch.
You have been abysmally treated in this whole debacle but I am sure that the verdict will be the right one and that next week you and your family can start to rebuild your lives.
God Bless
SM
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As Victor Meldrew would have said 'I don't believe it!!'.
When the Board eventually come to the only decision they possibly can, it will make victory sweeter.
Chin up, Spot (and Team)- they were just spending today having a laugh at the farcical prosecution.
Heres to tomorrow......
When the Board eventually come to the only decision they possibly can, it will make victory sweeter.
Chin up, Spot (and Team)- they were just spending today having a laugh at the farcical prosecution.
Heres to tomorrow......
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The previous poster suggested that the RAF has been disingenuous with regard to RAF Law. The problem is of course, that the RAF along with the Army and Navy do ensure that disciplinary matters are dealt with fairly, consistently and quickly.
Now here’s the but. The system of dispensing summary justice at Subordinate Command, Unit, DCM or GCM levels works well when dealing with purely military matters. Absence Without Leave, Negligent Discharges, Loss of ID Card are a few examples. However the system fails with regular monotony when Military Law under the 1955 Acts attempts to deal with Civil Matters. Civil charges under the 1955 Act are extremely difficult to formulate. Once formulated by the relevant services Legal Branch they are then prosecuted by the same Branch with perhaps greater determination (as, I would suggest, has been demonstrated here) than would necessarily occur in a civil court. Besides, a civil court at equivalent level would have a jury whose next promotion or posting would not necessarily be influenced by the outcome.
Further, and this is peculiar to the Services, for a Civil charge under the Acts, I am sure (although could be wrong given my direct knowledge of military law is 20 years out of date) that a Board of Inquiry must have completed it’s business and delivered it’s findings. I mean how can these charges have been framed without their findings and what is the Board of Inquiry going to find when the CM has delivered it’s verdict?
In conclusion, the system does generally work well with the limitations of simple and straightforward military law and discipline. The system in this case has failed and I would even venture to suggest that it has been an abuse.
This Officer is, I am quite sure, have read the entire thread and the CM updates, NOT guilty. He has been treated shamelessly.
Now here’s the but. The system of dispensing summary justice at Subordinate Command, Unit, DCM or GCM levels works well when dealing with purely military matters. Absence Without Leave, Negligent Discharges, Loss of ID Card are a few examples. However the system fails with regular monotony when Military Law under the 1955 Acts attempts to deal with Civil Matters. Civil charges under the 1955 Act are extremely difficult to formulate. Once formulated by the relevant services Legal Branch they are then prosecuted by the same Branch with perhaps greater determination (as, I would suggest, has been demonstrated here) than would necessarily occur in a civil court. Besides, a civil court at equivalent level would have a jury whose next promotion or posting would not necessarily be influenced by the outcome.
Further, and this is peculiar to the Services, for a Civil charge under the Acts, I am sure (although could be wrong given my direct knowledge of military law is 20 years out of date) that a Board of Inquiry must have completed it’s business and delivered it’s findings. I mean how can these charges have been framed without their findings and what is the Board of Inquiry going to find when the CM has delivered it’s verdict?
In conclusion, the system does generally work well with the limitations of simple and straightforward military law and discipline. The system in this case has failed and I would even venture to suggest that it has been an abuse.
This Officer is, I am quite sure, have read the entire thread and the CM updates, NOT guilty. He has been treated shamelessly.
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spot i have been following this debacle from the outset, being with you at L and also being at pristina for the almost identical set of circumstances and lo and behold the powers that be have learned absolutely nothing this cm is an absolute travesty and should never have happened i believe the outcome WILL be in your favour and look to having a celebratory wet in the not too distant
Were all routing for you and sue
tacwo
Were all routing for you and sue
tacwo
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Dear Spotty and Sue
Its taken me until the last day of the CM to work out how to get you but here I am at last, with so much love and positive thoughts for tomorrow. You've both been amazingly strong until now. Hang on in there. Love you .
Its taken me until the last day of the CM to work out how to get you but here I am at last, with so much love and positive thoughts for tomorrow. You've both been amazingly strong until now. Hang on in there. Love you .
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It's not that I'm psychic or anything but...
...I suspect the panel are struggling over altimetry. 'What did they say, wind-on pressure, wind-on height?'. 'I could never do their job'.
Shall I send 'em one of my sketches with two badly drawn matchstick aeroplanes?
Fingers crossed for tomorrow Spot, chin up mate.
Shall I send 'em one of my sketches with two badly drawn matchstick aeroplanes?
Fingers crossed for tomorrow Spot, chin up mate.
Last edited by Tallest Bloke; 24th Feb 2003 at 21:37.
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Right, time for this ridiculousness to stop. Find this man not guilty, acquit him, and then lets see if we can sort out the mess afterwards.
Keep going Spot, this has gone on far too long anyway one more day will make no difference to the fact you did nothing wrong.
Several cold beers are awaiting the result, get ready to drink heavily!!
Keep going Spot, this has gone on far too long anyway one more day will make no difference to the fact you did nothing wrong.
Several cold beers are awaiting the result, get ready to drink heavily!!
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Four and a half hours ! ! ! That's outrageous. I conclude that there are three possibilities that have caused this extended retirement:
(a) The board are on rates and are milking another 24hrs.
(b) The board is drawn from branches that have no conception of RIS, RAS, VFR, IFR, QNH, RPS...etc. and are lost in the plot.
(c) they're too embarrassed to show their faces.
Keep going Spot, nearly there.
(a) The board are on rates and are milking another 24hrs.
(b) The board is drawn from branches that have no conception of RIS, RAS, VFR, IFR, QNH, RPS...etc. and are lost in the plot.
(c) they're too embarrassed to show their faces.
Keep going Spot, nearly there.
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Almost there Spot
Spot and Sue
Hoping that Dick has revealed my identity to you. I read this avidly every day and await the rightful outcome. If you ever venture out to western Canada on your travels I will have a beer ready for you - oh and the hunting is pretty special too!
My thoughts are with you.
Hoping that Dick has revealed my identity to you. I read this avidly every day and await the rightful outcome. If you ever venture out to western Canada on your travels I will have a beer ready for you - oh and the hunting is pretty special too!
My thoughts are with you.
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PROBABLY THE MOST POPULAR AIR TRAFFICKER ........
Spot,
The beer is in the fridge as there must only be one outcome. This is going to be a good week.
BAGGY
PS. Haven't heard the M-name for ages. Nice one.........Malc!
The beer is in the fridge as there must only be one outcome. This is going to be a good week.
BAGGY
PS. Haven't heard the M-name for ages. Nice one.........Malc!
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F15 court Martial Result
Just read the verdict. Splendid news, there really was no other possible outcome.
Let's hope the Witchhunters now find themselves the Hunted.
Best wishes to the williams family
Let's hope the Witchhunters now find themselves the Hunted.
Best wishes to the williams family