RubiC Cube

Mickey drip,

Are the heirarchy out of reach?

We could all resign from the Benevolent Fund until a certain man retires.

Spot could sue his SATCO for lack of care.

Flycon

S P O T deserves all the support we can give him.

Does anyone else get the feeling that we are all standing on the end of the branch watching the was cutting through????

Wrote8

Dear Spot

Here I am again at the Internet cafe in Garmisch checking up on your day today. Although we are only brief acquaintances I think it speaks volumes about you that you have guys like Craig and Fozzie as your expert witnesses, Al Q as "mate" in blue, Dick Doleman, Al T and Tommy Tasker (aka Micky Droop - er drip!), batting for you. One day, hopefully, your band of men, you and your long-suffering family and a cast of thousands of well-wishers will get together, utter a huge sigh, and put this awful RAF induced farce to rest. If it has to drag on, don't let that drain your spirit. You are a top bloke with the support of some very special folks and the well-wishes of the rest of us to draw on. I wish there was something more tangible than that, but, you must at least know that there are a lot of us who care. Good Luck.

Stu B

Ham Sandwich

Spot - my best wishes for this farce to be swiftly ended, and also for those 'powers that be' that are trying to stitch you up to be made to answer for THEIR actions.

We met briefly - once at the RAF ski champs (as war was being declared). It was your beer that caused me to run into the plate glass window Anyway I forgive you, and think of you every time I see the scar in the mirror I tink you were also an instructor on ARTS in 89 when I went thru.

Best of luck
Ham

Wuperdinger

Fleetwoodmix and MD touched on some issues of concern to all of us. The view from the bottom (me!), is that if it ain't broke...

All concerned have always understood exactly who has what responsibility under RIS or RAS - it's part of our core knowledge after all! It's my understanding that any non-Brit crews who use our airspace must receive a face-to-face briefing on how we apply different TOS.

JSP 318A is (was) quite clear on the subject.

If we learn any lessons, as has been mentioned in previous posts, they will be that old lessons need to be re-learned.

God forbid that there should be a witch hunt. My only observation - bearing in mind that I have absolutely no idea what went on in that ACR at the time of the accident, is that good supervision should prevent this type of occurrence.

Keep up the good work DD and team - Spot, not long now!

Best Wishes

Wup

chiglet

Chin up Spot
It seems to me that the "So Called" Prosecution MUST be called Baldric, 'cos he has a "Cunning Plan" and another cunning plan, and another and another
Let us all hope and pray that this NONSENSE is finished P.D bl**dyQ
Cheers
Chas
we aim to please, it keeps the cleaners happy

Mickydrip

Thanks for the posting - Rubic Cube. Your guess is as good as mine concerning the hierarchy; I suspect the RAF will want to bury this whole fiasco asap. The best we can hope for is that those remaining in the Service with a direct responsibility in this case may have an annotation on their personal record to the effect that their man-management skills need honing; I know, it's not much, is it?

Concerning the Benevolent Fund - they do a tremendous job and should not be penalised in any way; stick in there, the Fund may need to shell out for any of us in the future, including you and I.

Suing SATCO? Personally I'd have put the papers in months ago, but I'm not Spot and none of us, apart from his lovely wife Sue, can imagine the mental anguish he's been through for the last 3 years (a year of family tragedies + the accident). When this outrage is over, I'm sure that Spot will need to collect his thoughts; none of us could blame him from walking away from the whole sorry saga - which is what MoD will be hoping he'll do.

Best wishes
Micky

Shagster

Ironically, (considering the Benevolent Funds head honcho's involvement in this case) Spot; as a serving member of the RAF, could approach the Benevolent fund for finacial aid.......
Still rootin for ya!

Torque2

I am normally a quiet peruser of PPRuNe but I have been enthralled by the reporting of Mickeydip on the associated thread. I wholehearted believe that this whole situation should have been cleared up by the Defence Counsels first few days. I hope Spot that you can manage to get over the whole situation and continue your very worthwhile job and also manage to put your experience to very good use with less experienced people. Very best of wishes for the outcome (although your defnce Counsel seems to have it all under very good control).

ready4departure

Like every other controller, both civil and military, I have been dismayed to see how we are seemingly crucifying one of our own. It undoubtedly smacks of a witch hunt and has seemingly brought the RAF ATC branch to its knees. However, I'm further dismayed to see in the last few days that the witch hunt mentality is perhaps endemic throughout the specialisation; I refer to the recent call for SATCO's head. Like 99% of the population I do not know what happened between her and Spot, or what was said on that fateful day. Like 99% of the population I can only guess and fill in the blanks based on "what I would have done in that situation". I like to think that I would have done the right thing...so tell me what is that? I can count several instances when I've said to a member of staff returning from compassionate leave " Are you OK. there's no rush back. If you need any more time just take it" only to hear the response " I'm OK I just need to get a bit of normality back into my life"! Heck I've even said " I'm fine" myself when I wasn't and I know of others who with hindsight of this case have said " therebut for the grace..." Don't tell me I didn't care, don't tell me that I wasn't trying to do my best for the individual. Did Spot's SATCO threaten him or disregard him? I don't know and I suggest only he and she knows exactly what happened or what was said that day. Calling for another 'head on a plate' is not helpful and fire's the message to all SATCOs, future SATCOs or Supervisors ; take heed, because if you make the wrong decision, even with the best of intentions, your workmates are likely to call for your blood. What I am sure of however, is that, like everybody connected with aviation SATCO had no intention of doing anything that would result in the tragedy of that day. Whatever Spot decides to do is up to him based on his personal knowledge of any exchange between himself and SATCO. For the rest of us, maybe calling for her to be sued proves we all have the same 'witch hunt' mentality that sees Spot where he is today. We all need to learn lessons from this whole sorry debacle, perhaps we have yet to do that!

KENNYR

To Spot, Sue and Family, I can only imagine the anguish that you have been forced to endure these last few years. I have not been in your situation, nor am I likely to be.

From what I have been reading, there really is no case to answer to. My wife and I, although we dont know you from Adam, wish you all the very best with the upcoming verdict, but in our eyes you are, and always have been, innocent of all charges!

Wrote8

Dear Spot

Schon wieder hier in Garmisch - oops, sorry, going a bit native! Sounds like Foz did what any of us air traffickers would have under the circumstances, but hats off to him for coming up trumps under what must be trying times (makes me wish I'd gotten to know him and you both better during my time in the service). My own experiences of CMs were (thankfully - and despite the efforts of a few in the Falklands) only as an officer under instruction; but it seems to me that (typically) the prosecution seem to think that they are always right and (like english people abroad), if they speak loudly enough, they will prevail (the words "ahs" and "hole" spring to mind :o=).

Hard to think of words that will make a difference (I am desperately trying to avoid Mike Tasker's favourite Doris Day classic "Que Sera Sera" - he actually has it on CD!!!). Suffice to say that in the words of Martin Luther King, we all hope you will soon be "Free at last, free at last". Good luck to you, time for this whole "farce" (to coin popular description of this) to draw to a rightful conclusion.

Alles guete!

Stu

RubiC Cube

The more I read about the prosecution case and the handling of it, I wonder if the prosecutor secretly sympathises with Spot and is doing his best to make a hash of it.

toothslayer

Spot

Good news - The beer is in the fridge!

Not so good news - You need a check-up!

Our thoughts are with you, Sue and the kids

Toothslayer

BDiONU

Todays update just made my blood boil! This is an outrageous waste of time, taxpayers money and the 'stringing up' of a controller who was doing his job! Does the Prosecutor have even the faintest idea of what they are talking about? The 'evidence' they're bringing in is total tosh! Surely this will be recognised by the CM board. Cannot believe it!!
Anyway Chris Foster is NEVER referred to as 'Vinnie' but 'The Don'.

smack

To Spot and Sue,

Got everything crossed for you both, Have been keeping upto date with the proceedings on the site & taking them into work, Will look forward to the positive outcome as we all know it should be xx

P.S. I worked with you in Germany;-)

higthepig

Spot
The light is at the end of the tunnel and it is not the prosecutors head-torch(dim). Good luck for the next few days. Very sorry that the pickled onions have gone.

PPRuNe Radar

If I was one of the 'eyewitnesses' whom the Prosecution are to all intents calling liars then I think I'd be considering some sort of legal action against them to protect my good name.

It just shows the desperation that the Prosecution case has. Their evidence against Spot has been found to be flawed so they have to resort to trying to debase all the solid evidence of the Defence.

I'll stop there I think .... not good for the blood pressure thinking of that odious little man.

Here's hoping that the correct (and only possible) judgement comes Spot's way very soon.

Acquittal !!!

Good luck to all the family .... the end is in sight now.

stopbar

Spot & Sue

I really don't think I can stand much more of this, heaven knows what it must be like for you. The tension out in the wide world is unbearable. God speed to a quick and rightous decision. Good luck to you both, this weekend is going to seem endless but we will all be with you and you will be in our thoughts.

Mark B

sycamore

Just a question or 3?
Was the AAIB ever involved in the accident investigation?
Does the F15 have an ADR of any sort?
"" " "" "" a CVR of any sort?
"" "" "" ""a HUD camera?
I would think that there must have been some inter /a/c communication which would have given an AAIB investigation a clue as to power settings ,etc?

Best of luck to you SPOT; our paths may have crossed at Lyneham!Syc.: