taxi instruction
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2016
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From: ankara
taxi instruction
Hi everyone,
Assume that, we have one runway (10-28), two taxiways (A for rwy 10 - B for rwy 28) used for entering runway. A is closed due construction work. We organise traffics via B.
So when we use rwy 10, i give the taxi instruction like that:
"ABC123, taxi to rwy 10 via B, qnh 1009. (no hold instruction for rwy 28)
1. Should a pilot hold short rwy 28 on B and ask for line up? or
2. May he line up rwy 28 without asking according to our taxi instruction?
Assume that, we have one runway (10-28), two taxiways (A for rwy 10 - B for rwy 28) used for entering runway. A is closed due construction work. We organise traffics via B.
So when we use rwy 10, i give the taxi instruction like that:
"ABC123, taxi to rwy 10 via B, qnh 1009. (no hold instruction for rwy 28)
1. Should a pilot hold short rwy 28 on B and ask for line up? or
2. May he line up rwy 28 without asking according to our taxi instruction?
Joined: Jul 2004
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From: LEEDS
A (now retired) ATCO at Leeds Bradford was often heard to issue this clearance, "Golf Foxtrot Charlie, cleared line-up and take-off runway 32..." It was many years ago and I don't remember any other LBA ATCOs doing the same. Maybe the rules were different then.
Joined: Oct 2000
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From: Berkshire, UK
Mooncrest.. I've read you post over and over and I can see nothing wrong. I've been retired for 15+ years and, as you say, rules change but I used that phrase many times at Heathrow in the form "Cleared to line-up and take-off runway 28R". Was I wrong? I don't think so as my LCE didn't miss a trick!
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From: SE England
Cleared to line-up and take-off runway 28R
Joined: Jul 2004
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From: LEEDS
HD, there was probably nothing wrong at all with that particular instruction. I'm not an ATCO so I don't have the detailed inside info. I'm just relaying what I used to hear many years ago from a single controller at one unit. I'm unable to comment as to right and wrong but that instruction did stand out.
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From: jersey
HD, there was probably nothing wrong at all with that particular instruction. I'm not an ATCO so I don't have the detailed inside info. I'm just relaying what I used to hear many years ago from a single controller at one unit. I'm unable to comment as to right and wrong but that instruction did stand out.
Joined: Apr 2003
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From: UK
I seem to recall that the philosophy invented by ICAO was that the word[s] 'clear' and 'cleared' were only to be used when issuing a clearance to take-off or land. 'Clearing' in all other circumstances eg. to manoeuvre on the ground; cross runways; climb; descend etc etc all became forbidden.
The old system/phraseology did seem to work very well, but then I was only an ATCO for thirty odd years, so what do I know!!!!?
The old system/phraseology did seem to work very well, but then I was only an ATCO for thirty odd years, so what do I know!!!!?
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2016
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From: ankara
So the aircraft should hold and ask for permission AGAIN for entering to runway even though the controller has given a lack intstruction.
(I know that, the clearance given above is not sufficient for safety context. We must give a holding point for the traffic for the best application.
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From: The foot of Mt. Belzoni.
In the phraseology mentioned in the OP, no specific 'clearance limit' is given, and is extremely ambiguous.
It effectively gives the a/c permission to enter the R/W via B and backtrack in order to get to R/W 10.
When I started in 1980, it was 'Cleared to the holding point R/W XX'.
This later became 'Taxy holding point R/W XX', with the word 'cleared' only used for T/O or Landing instructions.
Without checking CAP413, I believe the current procedure is to issue a taxy clearance to a specific holding point via a specific route?
It effectively gives the a/c permission to enter the R/W via B and backtrack in order to get to R/W 10.
When I started in 1980, it was 'Cleared to the holding point R/W XX'.
This later became 'Taxy holding point R/W XX', with the word 'cleared' only used for T/O or Landing instructions.
Without checking CAP413, I believe the current procedure is to issue a taxy clearance to a specific holding point via a specific route?
Last edited by ZOOKER; 12th April 2018 at 20:14.
