Our Friends at Computer Weekly
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Our Friends at Computer Weekly
ITV 10pm news tonight reports that Computer Weekly are publishing "leaked reports" tomorrow ( Thursday ) from Nerc regarding safety issues, airproxes, overloads and the truth about the staff shortages and flight delays.
Nats has confirmed these are genuine reports.
Nats has confirmed these are genuine reports.
Alba Gu Brath
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So the truth, according to NATS, is that ATCO's have been encouraged to be more forthcoming with reporting overloads. Hurray. Now, does this mean the system is better because controllers are more likely to admit to being too busy, or is it an admission that the controllers have been too busy for a long time but haven't had the time to report it? The end result is the same. The ATCO's controlling the UK airspace have too high a workload, and have had for some time. Payrise anybody????
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Yes please and make it a large one.
Seriously things are getting out of hand. Anyone want a bet that within the next 5 years our pension disappears up the Hampble and we end up with a really c***py deal?
Watch this space.
Seriously things are getting out of hand. Anyone want a bet that within the next 5 years our pension disappears up the Hampble and we end up with a really c***py deal?
Watch this space.
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Watched `Meridian` lunchtime news today and they had an item all about Swanwick and delays to flights. They made a big thing of the Airtours Airbus A320 which made an emergency landing at Gatwick after pressurisation failure. Now, am I missing something here, or is this absolutely nothing to do with Swanwick and the shortage of controllers??? It seems that we are just an easy excuse for the airlines to use for any problems or delays.
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Has anyone ever wondered why it's computer weekly that's reporting problems on delays? Surely they'd be more interested in stuff to do with the actual systems we use, not the delay aspects? My opinion is the editor has it in for NATS cos hes a failed Software engineer and NATS turned him down for a job and has found himself a place to get it off his chest. A little power goes a long way for some small minded people. Anyway.
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ASG.........
So what ? What is the point of your last post?
As far as I am concerned our friends at Computer Weekly are doing a great job in airing concerns and problems that affect ATC and operational staff.
They have my support and thanks.
SATCO
So what ? What is the point of your last post?
As far as I am concerned our friends at Computer Weekly are doing a great job in airing concerns and problems that affect ATC and operational staff.
They have my support and thanks.
SATCO
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My point is that what are a magazine specialising in computers and technology doing reporting on delays and ATCO overloads? It seems a little odd to me, a lowly engineer who often feels persicuted by the likes Computer Weekly for doing a job that needs doing (remember I didn't design the system or write the software) just cos this editor chap has a chip on his shoulder. Wouldn't you think that something as far reaching and important as ATCO overloads, delays and the pressures of the job would be better being reported in something like The Times, which has a far wider target audience and is maybe (my opinion - I'm entitled to it so don't bite a hole in my back side) better suited to comment on such important isuses? That's my point. Maybe the "leak" would be better suited, and ultimatly better off leaking this type of information to a few broad sheets?
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Big Tudor
Overloads are nothing to do with pay, they are a safety issue. There can't be many ATCOs who would ask for a pay increase in return for not filing overloads.
The ATCO's controlling the UK airspace have too high a workload, and have had for some time. Payrise anybody????
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Oh good lord, yet another pleb with half an idea and no brain to back it up with. SATCO (Is that the only way you'll get to be a SATCO, by making up a name????) I answered your question with good intent, yet you don't seem to want to listen to my answer (twice). Hmmmm. Strikes me my friend as you didn't want me to reply cos you know the size of my thingy-in-me-jig is bigger than yours. Don't worry honey, I won't think any less of you.
Now, do you want to discuss the point in hand or do you just want to put your point across and ignore what anyone else with a different opinion to yours thinks? Come on my friend, surprise me. Make a sensible (like your name...) response to this and lets get things going, rather than you being very closed mind about the whole issue and being self-assured that your tiny little opinion is what everyone else in pea brain land thinks.
Now, do you want to discuss the point in hand or do you just want to put your point across and ignore what anyone else with a different opinion to yours thinks? Come on my friend, surprise me. Make a sensible (like your name...) response to this and lets get things going, rather than you being very closed mind about the whole issue and being self-assured that your tiny little opinion is what everyone else in pea brain land thinks.
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NNF
Minutes of delay are nothing to do with safety. There can't be many engineers who would ask for a pay cut in return for overseeing a total power failure..........
Doh !
Overloads = ATCOs working harder
ATCOs working harder = more productivity per ATCO
more productivity per ATCO = more pay
...or don't they teach that in CMS ?
Overloads are nothing to do with pay, they are a safety issue. There can't be many ATCOs who would ask for a pay increase in return for not filing overloads.
Doh !
Overloads = ATCOs working harder
ATCOs working harder = more productivity per ATCO
more productivity per ATCO = more pay
...or don't they teach that in CMS ?
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ASG: You may be right in suspecting that CW is getting out of its apparent area of interest, but don't forget that they were the first to inform the public of the computer concerns at NERC and this could just be seen as the following of a relevant story.
Another point is that the CW reporting is generally better informed and correct as they have a knowledge of the history. The average journo, faced with a leak such as the recent ones, will splash some headline about jets seconds from disaster and controllers unable to cope and a 3-D diagram of how separation is supposed to work and that will be it. There would be all the usual inaccuracies and this forum would be alive with ridicule. Have you noted how little criticism there has been of what CW had to say? That is because it tends to be accurate.
Another point is that the CW reporting is generally better informed and correct as they have a knowledge of the history. The average journo, faced with a leak such as the recent ones, will splash some headline about jets seconds from disaster and controllers unable to cope and a 3-D diagram of how separation is supposed to work and that will be it. There would be all the usual inaccuracies and this forum would be alive with ridicule. Have you noted how little criticism there has been of what CW had to say? That is because it tends to be accurate.
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Eye: That's a fair point I suppose, but it still stinks to me of a personal vendetta. And what problems with the computers are these your refering to? Of the 3 major incidents involving equipments since Swanwick went live only 1 of them was down to the actual equipment at Swanwick.
Maybe also there hasn't been a whole lot of criticsm over the CW report cos not that many people who could care less actually read it? I know it got the usual piece-meal national TV coverage (how come there wasn't an interview with some union chappie outside NERC blaming management for the colour of the grass?), but I'm not sure where I'm going with this. Its a beautiful sunny Sunday afternoon and I'm not at work again until Tuesday now, so I'm gonna sit back, have a beer, and gloat over that poor CW editor who failed at the job I do so well!!
Maybe also there hasn't been a whole lot of criticsm over the CW report cos not that many people who could care less actually read it? I know it got the usual piece-meal national TV coverage (how come there wasn't an interview with some union chappie outside NERC blaming management for the colour of the grass?), but I'm not sure where I'm going with this. Its a beautiful sunny Sunday afternoon and I'm not at work again until Tuesday now, so I'm gonna sit back, have a beer, and gloat over that poor CW editor who failed at the job I do so well!!
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yaawwn
SATCO
by the number of times you have posted a yaaawwnn recently it looks as though you are rather tired.
You are certainly quite TIRESOME!
Please add something worthwhile or nothing at all.
GW
by the number of times you have posted a yaaawwnn recently it looks as though you are rather tired.
You are certainly quite TIRESOME!
Please add something worthwhile or nothing at all.
GW
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Computer Weekly
For those who want to read the CW views on Swanwick.
Go to the Computer Weekly website and type NATS into the search box at the top left of the homepage. You will then see all the articles.
Scroll down to read the ones written in 2000 and 2001 about the software problems at Swanwick. The one about voice comms is quite supportive of ATCO fears about sidetone at the time.
GW
Go to the Computer Weekly website and type NATS into the search box at the top left of the homepage. You will then see all the articles.
Scroll down to read the ones written in 2000 and 2001 about the software problems at Swanwick. The one about voice comms is quite supportive of ATCO fears about sidetone at the time.
GW
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GW:
First of all on the Sidetone article, what complicated digital processing? Has this bloke seen ADCE/MSRCE? That is a bit of an engineering joke there. Apologies.
Ok, so how do you think your sidetone is achieved at the moment at LACC? Not trying to be silly here. That article is actualy quite good. It does, as you say, express the controllers' fears, and it highlights some of the more fundamental problems at Swanwick from day 1. This isn't, however, a bug in the software or a problem with Swanwick. This is to do with physical delays in getting something from one place to another, and while we still have West Drayton and a wonderful bit of kit called MSRCE (I love working on equipment that is almost twice as old as me...) there will be this inherent delay. The only complex digital processing that takes place at present is the conversion of analogue voice to digital data for passing over BTs telephone networks. Exaclty the same as when you pick a telephone at home and speak to someone. That said, when we get the MSRCE replacement in October I believe, something called RICE, then it will be digital the second it leaves the headset and reaches the Transmitter.
First of all on the Sidetone article, what complicated digital processing? Has this bloke seen ADCE/MSRCE? That is a bit of an engineering joke there. Apologies.
Ok, so how do you think your sidetone is achieved at the moment at LACC? Not trying to be silly here. That article is actualy quite good. It does, as you say, express the controllers' fears, and it highlights some of the more fundamental problems at Swanwick from day 1. This isn't, however, a bug in the software or a problem with Swanwick. This is to do with physical delays in getting something from one place to another, and while we still have West Drayton and a wonderful bit of kit called MSRCE (I love working on equipment that is almost twice as old as me...) there will be this inherent delay. The only complex digital processing that takes place at present is the conversion of analogue voice to digital data for passing over BTs telephone networks. Exaclty the same as when you pick a telephone at home and speak to someone. That said, when we get the MSRCE replacement in October I believe, something called RICE, then it will be digital the second it leaves the headset and reaches the Transmitter.
