NATS - Remote Towers
NATS not necessarily the first in the UK?
Jersey Airport is set to become the first provider of Remote Tower Service technology in the British Isles
Suppose if were all going to be sat remotely somewhere in 20 years, there's worse places than Jersey....
Jersey Airport is set to become the first provider of Remote Tower Service technology in the British Isles
Suppose if were all going to be sat remotely somewhere in 20 years, there's worse places than Jersey....
Further to the above; I ought to state that I have less objection to the use of this technology to overcome catastrophic scenarios where the permanent Tower is unavailable. After all, most of the Jersey ATCOs worked with the "assistance" of CCTV (facing the wrong way) for several years after the new terminal was built so as to remove the ability of ATC to actually see the main area of operations (apart from the runway) i.e. the southern apron. So, the experience is there already.
One question. What happens in low vis. conditions ? And we get some VERY frequent low vis! I can't envisage one ATCO doing two ADCs in VI's of 200 meters !
One question. What happens in low vis. conditions ? And we get some VERY frequent low vis! I can't envisage one ATCO doing two ADCs in VI's of 200 meters !
Last edited by kcockayne; 6th Mar 2017 at 03:02. Reason: Getting the grammar right
Yes Gonzo, having read the item again, that appears to be true. Although Les is hopeful of expanding its use other than as an "emergency tower" facility. However, with the new revitalized Airport company looking for business, the prospect must have occurred to them.
I hope that my more generalized comments are still taken seriously.
I hope that my more generalized comments are still taken seriously.
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Yes Gonzo, having read the item again, that appears to be true. Although Les is hopeful of expanding its use other than as an "emergency tower" facility. However, with the new revitalized Airport company looking for business, the prospect must have occurred to them.
I hope that my more generalized comments are still taken seriously.
I hope that my more generalized comments are still taken seriously.
If your contingency facility can get you to 100% capacity, why not use it all the time?
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I have no knowledge of the plans in Jersey, but if they have recruitment and retention issues at Alderney and Guernsey maybe they could provide remote tower services from Jersey for those airfields?
There are pros and cons for remote towers but one of the major benefits for small aerodromes is the possibility of enjoying a better standard of controllers as there are less recruitment issues.
I know that is contentious, and there are a lot of good controllers at smaller aerodromes, but the job motivation, additional training and money the 'remote' controllers would receive should ultimately raise the competence levels of ATC personnel at small aerodromes across the world.
In a modern ATC environment I feel I am more removed from the Pilots and ground staff than ever before in my 15year career, (and it is a shame). Is it really a big leap from this to controlling remotely?
There are pros and cons for remote towers but one of the major benefits for small aerodromes is the possibility of enjoying a better standard of controllers as there are less recruitment issues.
I know that is contentious, and there are a lot of good controllers at smaller aerodromes, but the job motivation, additional training and money the 'remote' controllers would receive should ultimately raise the competence levels of ATC personnel at small aerodromes across the world.
In a modern ATC environment I feel I am more removed from the Pilots and ground staff than ever before in my 15year career, (and it is a shame). Is it really a big leap from this to controlling remotely?
one of the major benefits for small aerodromes is the possibility of enjoying a better standard of controllers as there are less (sic) recruitment issues.
I know that is contentious,
I know that is contentious,
2 s
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One of the big factors to be considered is the datalink. High quality cameras send masses of data so you need to be certain that you're going to get the quality of service you require from the cable provider. I would be dubious about connections from A country to B country because of the difficulties in agreeing just who is responsible for maintaining the service and finger pointing should it go horribly wrong.
If you went to your dentist, and he/she was performing a separate procedure, on another patient, at the same time as you were being treated, would you be happy?
The reality is that some of the provincial airports really need to look at this type of technology if they wish to remain economically viable.
Uberlingen was so long ago wasn't it?
That is en-route control, not Tower. And the sharing or merging of sectors under quiet conditions is established practice in that context. The only thing Uberlingen demonstrated is that you have to do it correctly.
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Really ?
If you went to your dentist, and he/she was performing a separate procedure, on another patient, at the same time as you were being treated, would you be happy?
Imagine if a heart surgeon, or a vet, was performing 2 operations simultaneously, and one of them went wrong........
NATS is keen on RPAS technology......But should a 'Drone Operator' control 2 separate RPAS units simultaneously?
Do you ever see a checkout operator, at TESCO, Waitrose or Sainsbury's, working 2 tills at the same time?.........No, I though so.
But it's O.K. for ATCOs.......Allegedly.
Imagine if a heart surgeon, or a vet, was performing 2 operations simultaneously, and one of them went wrong........
NATS is keen on RPAS technology......But should a 'Drone Operator' control 2 separate RPAS units simultaneously?
Do you ever see a checkout operator, at TESCO, Waitrose or Sainsbury's, working 2 tills at the same time?.........No, I though so.
But it's O.K. for ATCOs.......Allegedly.
Approach is in a darkened room with radar ? It could be your in garden shed for all it matters. The tech has made it wholly plausible, from a centre, for decades. There's half your tower gone in a blink. Savings to the provider and customer, huge ! Why ? Because ATCO's consider themselves beyond tech, which is hilarious. I could train a hybrid, in months, to do the job. Your time is up, as well as Tels and Admin, as has been proven in the last 10 years. My ATC colleagues are trying to leave, have left or are in despair regards their future. Hardly surprising, NATS went on a journey about 15 years ago, but forgot to take their people with them. NATS, in particular, dropped the ball and the Germans picked it up and scored a try. Well done UK LTD.
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I work in a busy tower and radar unit. Apart from the radar itself we barely have any technology, and what little we have breaks often. I don't dispute that technology will eventually replace air traffic controllers, but there isn't any sign of creeping technology in my workplace. Unless it all happens at once but that would still require the ansp to actually invest quite a lot of money, which I've never seen them do. I'm not overly worried.
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I work in a busy tower and radar unit. Apart from the radar itself we barely have any technology, and what little we have breaks often. I don't dispute that technology will eventually replace air traffic controllers, but there isn't any sign of creeping technology in my workplace. Unless it all happens at once but that would still require the ansp to actually invest quite a lot of money, which I've never seen them do. I'm not overly worried.
Or your nothing more than a trick cyclist or a fantasist ?
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No name and shame. I like my employer! I probably wasn't clear. We have back ups, service is not interrupted due to the professionalism and great work of my colleagues. Just knowing how technology is and how it frequently breaks, think of any computer or phone or whatever, I'm not worried the job will imminently disappear. I feel like there would be some sort of technological disruption leading up to a big change like that and I've seen nothing of the sort.
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Spambhoy,
I was doing approach radar, from a centre, utilising daylight-viewing, in 1982. That unit also combined approach with tower, and area, (obviously), plus approach radar for another of the ANSPs contracts, which has since been lost.
Many of the ATCOs who worked at this unit were valid on all of these functions, and all the others did at least two of them.
The flexibility that this system offered those tasked with rostering 'b*ms on seats' was second to none.
Then accountants/managers got involved and it all went for a ball of chalk.
Also.........
"I could train a hybrid, in months, to do the job".
Please could you explain this statement to us?
I was doing approach radar, from a centre, utilising daylight-viewing, in 1982. That unit also combined approach with tower, and area, (obviously), plus approach radar for another of the ANSPs contracts, which has since been lost.
Many of the ATCOs who worked at this unit were valid on all of these functions, and all the others did at least two of them.
The flexibility that this system offered those tasked with rostering 'b*ms on seats' was second to none.
Then accountants/managers got involved and it all went for a ball of chalk.
Also.........
"I could train a hybrid, in months, to do the job".
Please could you explain this statement to us?
Last edited by ZOOKER; 10th Mar 2017 at 22:35.
When I joined ATC, in 1971, I was told by a person I met who was in the computer industry that I would soon be out of a job, replaced by one of his computers. It didn't happen & I made it to retirement (38 years later). I accept that the pace of technology is increasing, & that computers will take over at some point. But, when? Another 38 years ?
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A remote tower with pooled ATC has to be the way to go for smaller airports with few scheduled movements. Off the top of my head, places like MME, CAX, CAL, HUY etc. might benefit. It is quite reasonable for ATC officers to be properly paid and to have a proper career, but airfields like these can offer little other than being nice places to live. But a good career coupled with a superb location to live could created for ATCO's who want to work in this part of the industry. At the same time these airfields would get proper ATC at a reasonable price.
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