Words per minute

[Brad2523]

Hey folks,

Just a quick question on not looking like a total plonker. Today I flew into Cambridge City, I'm a new ppl in a robin... I'm very comfortable talking on the radio and like to think that I have been taught well.

The guys at Cambridge give a lot of information, very quickly. Today I was with an instructor and he managed to get everything down but honestly there was a point where I was cleared to land and I completely missed it in the message.

This happened again when being told where to park up, my instructor managed to hear but I missed it completely.

This is the first time this has happened to me - if I were on my own, i would have been missing all sorts of information. I know that it's my job to fly the plane and ask again for missed info.

i just wondered if you find this a common problem? I've been to Norwich and Southend and never had a problem, even the Americans at lakenheath I've managed to understand.

Not a moan at all to the guys at Cambridge, but I just wonder; what is the quickest you speak and do you feel like you speak fast? And is it necessary? (I understand Heathrow etc, but small regionals?)

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Quite simply, it's poor technique by ATC. There is no need to gabble and pass information quickly especially at a quiet airfield. I always taught controllers to speak slower if things got busy which ensures that instructions are read correctly the first time thereby obviating the need for repeats.

[zonoma]

I agree with HD, when ATC get busier, it is far better to speak slower and ensure the relevant info is all absorbed. A rule of thumb is to not pass more than three bits of info in any one transmission, and that should reduce if there is any doubt the pilot would not manage to digest it all. There are many reasons for reducing the amount varying from nationality, quality of the RTF on check in, is "TRAINING" a flight plan remark and emergency traffic. I'd even say "sorry, you were too quick for me there, can you say again" and then the ATC concerned will hopefully deliver it so you hear and understand everything you need.

[fujii]

Use the standard ICAO phrase, "SPEAK SLOWER."

[terrain safe]

I find some crews speak very quickly, and my old ears can't keep up, so I say "Say again, but slower". Works for me.

[jackieofalltrades]

I've met some controllers who are of the adage the faster you talk the better you are. Like HD, I'm not of that mindset. I think it's much more important to elocute your words in a manner that will ensure they're heard and understood the first time.

[FantomZorbin]

HD & Zonoma are spot on ... bite-size chunks of info. are easily digestible and a steady, clear delivery should be the norm.

[ChickenHouse]

Several things. First, you will get used to filter the relevant information from a fast flow speech over time. It seems you are still explicitly "listening" to the words, instead of triggering your intuition by radio RX. This will go away over time and with experience. Second, if it is too fast, request REPEAT SLOWER. Why did your instructor not practice that? Another trick is to use bad english pronunciation, so the other side does not assume you are a good listener. Third, be open to the controller and tell her/him. At my home field we have a controller who always wants do be "the professional" and once in a hurry tends to speak faster then his brain is capable of feeding information, which often ends fast gibberish. The only way out is to talk to each other openly.

[Talkdownman]

Ironically, slowing down delivery will de-congest the R/T traffic because it reduces the likelihood of repetition. Timely transmissions for big bites of climb/descent will eliminate those piece-meal transmissions for the sake of it. The knack is in creating spare R/T capacity. Caution with including three flight parameters in one transmission. I recall an incident report where an ATCO was criticised for giving a certain national flag-carrier height, heading and speed in one transmission. One of the three parameters was mis-selected, and the multi-crew opined that three in one transmission was too much to assimilate.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

<<At my home field we have a controller who always wants do be "the professional" and once in a hurry tends to speak faster then his brain is capable of feeding information, which often ends fast gibberish. >>

I know what you mean but doing what he does is the very opposite of professional.....

[Una Due Tfc]

Originally Posted by HEATHROW DIRECTOR

<<At my home field we have a controller who always wants do be "the professional" and once in a hurry tends to speak faster then his brain is capable of feeding information, which often ends fast gibberish. >>

I know what you mean but doing what he does is the very opposite of professional.....

Completely agree. Slowing down when extremely busy not only reduces repeats, it also gives you more time to think, so you will be less like to say "correction". Slower speech reduces workload in/on busy sectors/frequencies

[scifi]

Sometimes, especially with SSB HF transmitters, it is advisable to start your transmission with... 'Aaarh ...' This enables your transmitter to start-up during a non important part of your message.


A good example of a clipped transmission is Mil1 Volmet on 5.450 Mhz USB. Their first word (the airfield) is clipped and unreadable.
Compare this with Shannon Volmet on 5.505 Mhz, who always start with the pre-amble 'This is Shannon Volmet....'
.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

scifi I don't think there is good reason for this. I am a radio amateur and have been using SSB for over 40 years. Pressing the TX key instantly mutes my receiver and activates the TX. In amateur radio contests where one can make hundreds of contacts in an hour progress would be very slow if one had to say "Arrrh" before each transmission.

[Loki]

I used to encourage trainees who tended to gabble, to listen to the news on BBC Radio 4 as an example of sensible pace......this sometimes got a blank look from some of them, presumably as they might never have listened to that channel.

[scifi]

Hi HD, looks as if we are of the same vintage.. hi.


If you have not heard Military One Volmet, I have a utube video of its' transmission. The first 3 reports are for Brize Norton, Bamako, and Algiers, which because of the delay in powering up the transmitter, sounds like...
'snorton', 'ako', and 'geers', respectively.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4_2gBMr1hg

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

I accept what you say but it must be because of a fault or poor operating. When I worked abroad I used SSB to communicate with our parent centre. It was instantaneous in both directions and that's going back nearly 40 years using rather poor equipment! Transmitters don't need "powering up", they should operate the instant you press the transmit key.. Maybe Mil Volmet uses VOX, which is a system where the transmitter operates the instant a noise is heard in the mic. VOX has a delay function so if that is wrongly set up it could produce the effect you are hearing..

[Helen49]

It has always struck me as being rather odd that when a pilot makes a 'first solo', ATC, RFFS etc pay great attention to detail and offer all possible help, including keeping other traffic out of the way. When the pilot makes the second and subsequent early flights, little forewarning is provided to ATC and consequently there may be inadequate consideration shown..

I always stressed to PPLs visiting the tower that an appropriate word on the telephone prior to the flight would prove helpful to the pilot, ATC and other traffic. This includes first visits to other airfields and any other situation where the pilot is apprehensive. In my experience ATC would bend over backwards to help in such situations and that would certainly include RTF procedures.

ATC telephone numbers are always available in the relevant documents.

[ZOOKER]

I was taught, and I always taught, never to give more than 2 numbers/ instructions in a single Tx.
It seemed to work.

[Una Due Tfc]

Originally Posted by ZOOKER

I was taught, and I always taught, never to give more than 2 numbers/ instructions in a single Tx.
It seemed to work.

It's in the annexes IIRC

[Standard Noise]

The ATCO in question wasn't of Northern Irish extraction was he/she?
I found when I moved over to England many moons ago, I had to slow my speech down so the In-gur-lish peeps could get it all. If I go back to Belfast for more than 48 hours, I find I'm back talking nineteen to the dozen. For many years, I assumed the In-gur-lish were just thick as two short planks.

For the record, SheWhoMakesMyEarsBleed still tells me off if we're in company and she thinks I'm talking too fast.