Class D transits

[Nimmer]

The Approach units at TC are definitely encouraged to "over control" VFR transits. The airlines do not want or like any form of TCAS alert when on approach, thus to save paperwork and time explaining your actions, VFR crosses are routed well clear of inbound or outbound aircraft.

Loads of traffic information is passed, tower controllers informed and encouraged to work the aircraft, some may refuse as they are too busy. At times the whole process is just so much hassle, crossings are refused.

Unfortunately these are the facts! Let the discussions commence.

[2 sheds]

"Routeing clear..." is one thing but I was querying the authority to impose a level restriction when the airspace classification does not mandate it and there is further class D airspace above the level restriction. Another consideration is that specifically in the case of a single-engine aircraft, it limits the time and options in the event of an engine failure.


2 s

[eastern wiseguy]

Originally Posted by panpanpanpan

Try flying in Northern Ireland and getting a transit through Aldergrove airspace at 2000 feet VFR, usual response is "negative, remain outside controlled airspace, basic service only". If the radio traffic levels are very quiet (usually) and you ask for a delay time or a reason, a typical response is "inbound Easyjet 50 miles to run 3000 feet above you, you wouldn't be separated if I let you through the zone!"

Simple solution, turn transponder off and fly right round the line on the map.

Oh dear......http://www.nats.aero/news/caa-backs-belfast-airspace-reclassification/

[jmmoric]

2 sheds, class D is still controlled airspace for VFR flights, we can control VFR flights just as much as in class C if we want to.

I think you're mixing class D and class E up a bit

[Talkdownman]

Originally Posted by jmmoric

2 sheds, class D is still controlled airspace for VFR flights, we can control VFR flights just as much as in class C if we want to.

I reckon 2 sheds will agree that that is control for the sake of it...

[jmmoric]

That's why the "if we want to" was added

[2 sheds]

2 sheds, class D is still controlled airspace for VFR flights, we can control VFR flights just as much as in class C if we want to.

I think you're mixing class D and class E up a bit

Not mixing anything up, jmm - don't quite see your point as I was not referring to any specific location. I would suggest that your approach of "we can control VFR flights just as much (in Class D...)" is precisely my point - that that classification should not be a mandate for arbitrary level restriction just for ATC convenience beyond, perhaps, initially after departure if there is a holding pattern overhead the aerodrome.

2 s

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Glad I spent most of my career in Class A where I knew who was running the show!

[kcockayne]

Originally Posted by HEATHROW DIRECTOR

Glad I spent most of my career in Class A where I knew who was running the show!

With you there, HD. Same applies to me. I had a year in Class G , & in a little bit of another unit's Class D after retiring from Class A. It was a real "eye opener". In my opinion Radar Controllers in Class G are real heroes !

[chevvron]

Originally Posted by kcockayne

With you there, HD. Same applies to me. I had a year in Class G , & in a little bit of another unit's Class D after retiring from Class A. It was a real "eye opener". In my opinion Radar Controllers in Class G are real heroes !

I spent 34 years providing radar services in class G, many of them with high performance military aircraft. Now I'm a FISO, the airfield where I occasionally work is in class D!

[Talkdownman]

Originally Posted by chevvron

I spent 34 years providing radar services in class G, many of them with high performance military aircraft. Now I'm a FISO, the airfield where I occasionally work is in class D!

That sums you up. A controller in uncontrolled airspace, and an uncontroller in controlled airspace. You always were an odd-ball...

[SATCOMS]

Anne1 is clear on the subject:
Class C. IFR and VFR flights are permitted, all flights are provided with air traffic control service and IFR flights are
separated from other IFR flights and from VFR flights. VFR flights are separated from IFR flights and receive traffic
information in respect of other VFR flights.




Class D. IFR and VFR flights are permitted and all flights are provided with air traffic control service, IFR flights are
separated from other IFR flights and receive traffic information in respect of VFR flights, VFR flights receive traffic
information in respect of all other flights.

[SATCOMS]

Computers or digits again! Should be Annex 11

[jmmoric]

Not mixing anything up, jmm - don't quite see your point as I was not referring to any specific location. I would suggest that your approach of "we can control VFR flights just as much (in Class D...)" is precisely my point - that that classification should not be a mandate for arbitrary level restriction just for ATC convenience beyond, perhaps, initially after departure if there is a holding pattern overhead the aerodrome.

2 s

The classification is EXACTLY mandating that... otherwise you'd have class E instead I do understand your point though, my point is: Control is control, it's not like it comes in various degrees... the same goes with seperation, either you will be seperated, or you won't. We're still here to "prevent collision between aircraft" and "expedite and maintain an orderly flow of traffic". I do agree, there's no need to restrict VFR flights if not needed.

Glad I spent most of my career in Class A where I knew who was running the show!

Lucky you

(By the way, I know who's running it in D as well, I do!)

[ATCO Fred]

Quote:


Originally Posted by HEATHROW DIRECTOR View Post

Glad I spent most of my career in Class A where I knew who was running the show!

With you there, HD. Same applies to me. I had a year in Class G , & in a little bit of another unit's Class D after retiring from Class A. It was a real "eye opener". In my opinion Radar Controllers in Class G are real heroes !

I could show you screen shots of such aviation muppetry from Class G that would make a grown ATCO cry !! Although the glider down the runway (opposite direction) at 50ft is my personal favourite - just a shame we didn't get his tail number as both us and the BGA would have "thrown the book at him". But as in most walks of life the poor standards of a few ruin it for the majority.

[panpanpanpan]

Oh dear......CAA backs Belfast airspace reclassification - NATS

All very pretty but I don't see why I still can't fly around the edge of the zone at 1999 feet if refused a transit. The class E changing to D started at 2000 feet, don't see that the levels have changed.