Gatwick arrivals
I don't know. I don't speak for NATS nor have I viewed the data you reference.
But what's the point of running an approach stabilisation trial if not to encourage more stable approaches?
But what's the point of running an approach stabilisation trial if not to encourage more stable approaches?
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Gatwick Approach and Departure
This whole discussion is based around changes made in 2014 for departures and arrivals at Gatwick without consultation - or without proper consultation. NATS is a private company with profits as its driving force and noise over the residents beneath the flight path is hardly in their mind. They have refused to connect with any of the protest groups and simply carry on regardless. Some are currently monitoring the ATC directions to incoming aircraft and I am advised that it is quite clear that arrivals directions are based upon NATS requirements and without consideration of the noise impact on those beneath track.
Autonomous navigation is already under test and this will enable both rapid continuous climb and CDA with wide dispersal for noise benefits without any need for ATC staff other than at the airport. "Times they are a changing"
It is only a matter of time.
Autonomous navigation is already under test and this will enable both rapid continuous climb and CDA with wide dispersal for noise benefits without any need for ATC staff other than at the airport. "Times they are a changing"
It is only a matter of time.
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Interpreter, what a load of tosh.
Some of the comments written on this thread are beyond belief, and I thought this was a "professional" forum.
Firstly fixed routes are already proving to be unpopular from the noise NIMBYS, as the routes are constant, and thus the noise path is therefore more concentrated.
No ATC other than at the airports?????? Weather avoiding, emergency traffic. need I go on.
As for consultation with the public concerning aircraft routes, I repeat my mantra, if you buy a house near an airport you must expect aircraft noise.
Some of the comments written on this thread are beyond belief, and I thought this was a "professional" forum.
Firstly fixed routes are already proving to be unpopular from the noise NIMBYS, as the routes are constant, and thus the noise path is therefore more concentrated.
No ATC other than at the airports?????? Weather avoiding, emergency traffic. need I go on.
As for consultation with the public concerning aircraft routes, I repeat my mantra, if you buy a house near an airport you must expect aircraft noise.
Look at last year's fiasco with Heathrow departures, it was meant to facilitate a 'tighter' flow by more accurate track keeping, but it routed a constant flow of departures over areas like Ascot which had previously not experienced such levels of traffic.
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GATWICK Arrivals
Nimmer. I appreciate your blunt response and if I was a controller, which I am not, but a pilot I also would be concerned at the way ATC is likely to develop. Noise has taken second place or even third place to CO2 emissions but it is more likely in the future to be heading for number one position. This will mean a definitive change in both arrival and departure procedures.
As for autonomous navigation, there is a clear future in each aircraft having its own onboard computer which takes in all the parameters of safety, fuel efficiency, noise reduction, traffic etc from just after take-off. Obviously there will need to be human emergency stand-by facilities - but it is coming. Believe you me.
As for autonomous navigation, there is a clear future in each aircraft having its own onboard computer which takes in all the parameters of safety, fuel efficiency, noise reduction, traffic etc from just after take-off. Obviously there will need to be human emergency stand-by facilities - but it is coming. Believe you me.
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interpreter,
like yourself, I'm not a controller, and unfortunately, I can't interpret from the first line of your last post whether or not you are a pilot.
If you are a pilot, (of whatever level of proficiency), please try and arrange a visit to EGKK.
Better still, try and arrange a visit to the ATCC at Swanwick. Granted, it's not as easy to set up these things as it was, but NATS is very customer-focussed still.
Most ATCOs enjoy talking to pilots about the job they do and the constraints which are imposed on them, - often by people not connected with aviation.
Oh, and if do visit an ATC facility, always take a tin of biscuits or chocolates, and I guarantee they'll make you a cuppa'.
like yourself, I'm not a controller, and unfortunately, I can't interpret from the first line of your last post whether or not you are a pilot.
If you are a pilot, (of whatever level of proficiency), please try and arrange a visit to EGKK.
Better still, try and arrange a visit to the ATCC at Swanwick. Granted, it's not as easy to set up these things as it was, but NATS is very customer-focussed still.
Most ATCOs enjoy talking to pilots about the job they do and the constraints which are imposed on them, - often by people not connected with aviation.
Oh, and if do visit an ATC facility, always take a tin of biscuits or chocolates, and I guarantee they'll make you a cuppa'.
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And another thing...
'ZOOKER Towers' is 3.5nm from the ARP of a very busy international airport. It's also located on a 'cul-de-sac', underneath one of that airport's SID tracks, which has been utilised extensively today.
I don't get passing road-traffic, but the aircraft passing overhead often still have take-off thrust set.
Today, I did one of my frequent 5 mile walks around the local area. On the through-roads, the noise of overflying aircraft was often masked by the noise from road traffic....But do the folk who live alongside the roads continually complain to the local council, The DVLA, or The Highways Agency?
Of course not!
Do the folks who live within earshot of the M1, M2, M3, M4, M25 etc ring up if the road-traffic-noise is irritating?
Of course not!
Even though the noise from these sources is usually continuous, unlike a/c noise, which is transitory.
I read recently that attending U.K. airshows is one of the most popular spectator-events, (after watching football).
Time to celebrate aviation, methinks, and the astonishing reductions in aircraft-noise that have occurred over the last 30 years.
'ZOOKER Towers' is 3.5nm from the ARP of a very busy international airport. It's also located on a 'cul-de-sac', underneath one of that airport's SID tracks, which has been utilised extensively today.
I don't get passing road-traffic, but the aircraft passing overhead often still have take-off thrust set.
Today, I did one of my frequent 5 mile walks around the local area. On the through-roads, the noise of overflying aircraft was often masked by the noise from road traffic....But do the folk who live alongside the roads continually complain to the local council, The DVLA, or The Highways Agency?
Of course not!
Do the folks who live within earshot of the M1, M2, M3, M4, M25 etc ring up if the road-traffic-noise is irritating?
Of course not!
Even though the noise from these sources is usually continuous, unlike a/c noise, which is transitory.
I read recently that attending U.K. airshows is one of the most popular spectator-events, (after watching football).
Time to celebrate aviation, methinks, and the astonishing reductions in aircraft-noise that have occurred over the last 30 years.
Last edited by ZOOKER; 19th Apr 2015 at 20:59.
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"This whole discussion is based around changes made in 2014 for departures and arrivals at Gatwick without consultation - or without proper consultation. NATS is a private company with profits as its driving force and noise over the residents beneath the flight path is hardly in their mind."
Well, yes and no. Yes, NATS is a private company, and yes, profits are very important nowadays. So why, if that were the case, would NATS be interested in doing anything at all, as everything new costs, and doing nothing is free....
Well, yes and no. Yes, NATS is a private company, and yes, profits are very important nowadays. So why, if that were the case, would NATS be interested in doing anything at all, as everything new costs, and doing nothing is free....
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As for autonomous navigation, there is a clear future in each aircraft having its own onboard computer which takes in all the parameters of safety, fuel efficiency, noise reduction, traffic etc from just after take-off.
Autonomous navigation in a TMA is a very, very long way off... if ever.
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I'm with Nimmer, et al,on this one.
Anyone who, knowingly, buys a property within 5nm of an ARP, and then proceeds to complain about 'aircraft-noise', is a 'nutjob'.
Anyone who, knowingly, buys a property within 5nm of an ARP, and then proceeds to complain about 'aircraft-noise', is a 'nutjob'.
@Zooker
'The most visible members of the ARP were the air raid wardens. ARP posts were initially set up in the warden’s home, or in a shop or an office, but they were later purpose-built.'
Don't think they had any more influence on aircraft noise then than they do now - or is that not what you meant ?
On a more serious note, I feel you need to qualify your comment - I can remember being at Stansted in 1960 for a couple of hours without a single movement. I don't think anyone had too many qualms about buying property around that area in those days - now look at it ! :-(
'The most visible members of the ARP were the air raid wardens. ARP posts were initially set up in the warden’s home, or in a shop or an office, but they were later purpose-built.'
Don't think they had any more influence on aircraft noise then than they do now - or is that not what you meant ?
On a more serious note, I feel you need to qualify your comment - I can remember being at Stansted in 1960 for a couple of hours without a single movement. I don't think anyone had too many qualms about buying property around that area in those days - now look at it ! :-(
Last edited by Eric T Cartman; 20th Apr 2015 at 19:35.
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Maybe you can find comfort in the fact that no doubt your home being twenty miles from a major UK airport pushes it's value up significantly as opposed to living far away from a major UK airport?
Location, location, location.
Location, location, location.
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