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Stand-by for Maastricht?

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Stand-by for Maastricht?

Old 22nd Mar 2015, 07:49
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Question Your experience with: "STANDY-BY/Monitor"?

"STAND-BY", new in Maastricht, anyone got experience with this ("Monitor" concept, positive and/or negative)?

(A0289/15 NOTAMN
Q) EHAA/QSUXX/IV/NBO/E /245/999/5259N00454E999
A) EHAA B) 1503230000 C) 1504122359
E)A STANDBY CAMPAIGN AT MAASTRICHT UAC IS CONDUCTED IN ORDER TO REDUCE THE FREQUENCY LOAD AND THE NUMBER OF CROSS-TRANSMISSIONS. THE PHRASEOLOGY 'STANDBY FOR MAASTRICHT ON (CHANNEL-NAME)' CAN BE EXPECTED FOR TRANSFER OF FREQUENCY. PILOTS ARE REMINDED TO ANNOUNCE THEY ARE STANDING BY WHEN FREQUENCY TIME ALLOWS.)

(A1330/15 NOTAMN
Q) EDXX/QSUXX/I/NBO/E/245/999/5110N01027E999
A) EDGG EDWW B) 1503230000 C) 1504122359
E) A STANDBY CAMPAIGN AT MAASTRICHT UAC IS CONDUCTED IN ORDER TO
REDUCE THE FREQUENCY LOAD AND THE NUMBER OF CROSS TRANSMISSIONS. THE PHRASEOLOGY 'STANDBY FOR MAASTRICHT ON (CHANNEL-NAME)' CAN BE EXPECTED FOR TRANSFER OF FREQUENCY.
PILOTS ARE REMINDED TO ANNOUNCE THEY ARE STANDING-BY
WHEN FREQUENCY TIME ALLOWS.)

(A0454/15 NOTAMN UACC
Q) EBBU/QSUXX/I/NBO/E/245/999/5029N00417E999
A) EBBU B) 1503230000 C) 1504122359
E) A STANDBY CAMPAIGN AT MAASTRICHT UAC IS CONDUCTED IN ORDER TO REDUCE THE FREQUENCY LOAD AND THE NUMBER OF CROSS-TRANSMISSIONS. THE PHRASEOLOGY 'STANDBY FOR MAASTRICHT ON (CHANNEL-NAME)' CAN BE EXPECTED FOR TRANSFER OF FREQUENCY. PILOTS ARE REMINDED TO ANNOUNCE THEY ARE STANDING-BY WHEN FREQUENCY TIME ALLOWS.)
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Old 22nd Mar 2015, 08:50
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I do not agree with the system and never employed it when it was introduced at Heathrow. It might cause inconvenience on the ground but in the air, if a pilot accidentally sets the wrong frequency, the consequences could be dangerous.
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Old 22nd Mar 2015, 10:42
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Even if they are not on the wrong freq, 'Standby/Monitor/Listen out', whatever, many pilots don't seem to be able to keep their mouths shut anyway.

GMC: 'Birdseed one-oh-one, monitor one one eight decimal five'

'Listen Point five, one-oh-one'

……….

'Heathrow Tower, Birdseed one-oh-one, we're with you, listening (monitoring/standing by) one one eight five, holding on the left, we're fully ready when you call us, just waiting for the cabin…..' blah blah etc etc
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Old 22nd Mar 2015, 10:54
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PILOTS ARE REMINDED TO ANNOUNCE THEY ARE STANDING BY WHEN FREQUENCY TIME ALLOWS

Am I missing something? Why use the phrase "stand-by on" if you then expect the pilots to tell the next sector they're standing by? Might as well use "contact maastricht with callsign only" in that case?

Or have I read the notam wrong?
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Old 22nd Mar 2015, 21:55
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Crazy Voyager, if you're missing something then I am too...

As a pilot, I am taught that "Standby" means to not transmit until I'm called. The response to an instruction to standby is nothing. No "roger" or "standing by" or any of the other dribble you commonly hear.

In my mind, the instruction "STANDBY FOR MAASTRICHT ON (CHANNEL-NAME)", is mixing up the instruction to monitor a frequency and to standby. Its fine on paper but when you mix that up in a busy congested frequency you're just asking for trouble. A standard "monitor {channel name & freq}" would be far more appropriate.

With regards to the risk of selecting the wrong frequency, I don't think this system is significantly more risky than other systems, as the likelihood of selecting the wrong frequency is about the same, and then if I'm on the wrong frequency, I'll clue onto it eventually and go back to my original frequency...
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Old 23rd Mar 2015, 09:57
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Sorry, I don't get it, maybe the weekend was too tough.
Isn't this the ordinary "switch to a busy frequency" in busy times anyways?
This is what I would expect in reality.

ATC: XXX Standby for Maastricht on CHN (short form of: XXX switch to Maastricht frequency CHN, stay calm until called, they are quite busy there)

A/C: standing by for Maastricht in CHN XXX (confirm CHN, also made optional by the NOTAM - which is the minor point I am not with, as it adds a shortcut in radio and cuts confirmation at the same time, although this is done already anyways, it should be the exception, not a NOTAMed regular behavior)
- switch to CHN
- keep mouth shut until called

What if, you are never called and about to enter the next area ... they forgot about you or they are too busy, or ...
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Old 23rd Mar 2015, 10:47
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Exclamation

So far this year, even before the start of the summer season, MUAC has been experiencing a traffic increase that makes our ATC sectors and frequencies very busy.
MUAC is working proactively to offset the impact of this increased demand in many ways. One of them is trying to save valuable frequency-time that is often lost by stations calling in and overriding each-other’s transmissions.
For which reason he have issued the NOTAMs for the UIRs under MUAC control, valid from 23 March to 12 April 2015

A STANDBY CAMPAIGN AT MAASTRICHT UAC IS CONDUCTED IN ORDER TO REDUCE THE FREQUENCY LOAD AND THE NUMBER OF CROSS-TRANSMISSIONS. THE PHRASEOLOGY ‘STANDBY FOR MAASTRICHT ON(CHANNEL-NAME)’ CAN BE EXPECTED FOR TRANSFER OF FREQUENCY. PILOTS ARE REMINDED TO ANNOUNCE THEY ARE STANDING-BY WHEN FREQUENCY TIME ALLOWS.

Most of all, MUAC would like stations not to call in at all, but after having a close look at ICAO regulations, it is clear this should not be done.

1. STAND BY FOR (unit call sign) (frequency) ;
2. MONITOR (unit call sign) (frequency) ;

So, an aircraft may be requested to:
1. “STAND BY” on a frequency when it is intended that the ATS unit will initiate communications soon, and to
2. “MONITOR” a frequency when information is being broadcast thereon (e.g. ATIS).

STAND-BY Phraseology

ATC: “SPEEDBIRD 123, standby for Maastricht (on) 118.950”
Airborne Station: “Standby for Maastricht 118.950, SPEEDBIRD 123”

Current ICAO regulations (ICAO Annex 2 – Rules of the Air, ICAO Doc 9426 and 7754) require:

• an initial call [from the flight] when entering the area of an ATS unit, and
• a ground-initiated call to an aircraft prior to its leaving that area.

These are considered to be a minimum requirement for air ground communications.

So the Stand-By Phraseology after being transferred in this way should be:
Airborne Station: “Maastricht, SPEEDBIRD 123 Standing by”

Needless to say that such an announcement could lead to cross-transmissions again, so air stations are kindly requested to wait for a silence on the radio before doing so.

1. Should it not be “Monitor” instead of “Stand-By”?

No, ICAO Doc 4444 - PANS ATM / Chapter 12 – PHRASEOLOGIES § 12.3.1.3, as quoted above, clearly makes the difference.


2. Does this not increase the risk for a Loss of Communication?

If the air station makes an announcement of standing by, the concern is of course mitigated. In Maastricht the ATCO makes at that moment a system input showing the flight is on his frequency, and so from then on it cannot be forgotten.
Even when the air station is not calling in at all, the transferring sector can see that nobody in Maastricht is making this input of starting communications with that flight, and will point that out to the receiving MUAC sector.
MUAC is not using the Stand-By method for transfer of communications to external units.


3. What is the difference to the normal transfer of communications, when Pilots are just required to report Standing-By?

The biggest difference is that apart from the possible “standing-by” announcement, to which no reply is to be expected, the initiative for communications comes from the ground. This allows the ATCOs to do their own frequency time-management, addressing the stations not always in the order of arrival but rather in order of priority.


4. What exact phraseology is to be used?

Transfer of Communications in ATC Sector 1:
ATC: “SPEEDBIRD 123, standby for Maastricht (on) 118.950”
Airborne Station: Standby for Maastricht 118.950, SPEEDBIRD 123”
Start of Communications in ATC Sector 2:
Airborne Station: “Maastricht, SPEEDBIRD 123 Standing by”
No reply is to be expected! ATC has the responsibility to initiate communications and address the flight.


5. When are pilots are required to report Standing-By, if not called by ATC?

This is perhaps the most important question.By all means, if the pilot would feel unsure: do call in. When using the phraseology “Maastricht, [Callsign] Standing by”: by all means, please wait for a silence on the radio-frequency before doing so.
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Old 23rd Mar 2015, 13:11
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Could you not just open another frequency manned by another ATCO?
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Old 23rd Mar 2015, 14:49
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Sorry, I still dont' get it.


[...]
So, an aircraft may be requested to:
1. “STAND BY” on a frequency when it is intended that the ATS unit will initiate communications soon, and to

[...]


4. What exact phraseology is to be used?

Transfer of Communications in ATC Sector 1:
ATC: “SPEEDBIRD 123, standby for Maastricht (on) 118.950”
Airborne Station: Standby for Maastricht 118.950, SPEEDBIRD 123”
Start of Communications in ATC Sector 2:
Airborne Station: “Maastricht, SPEEDBIRD 123 Standing by”
No reply is to be expected! ATC has the responsibility to initiate communications and address the flight.
[...]

This still seems like a contradiction to me.

Yes I can see the other regulation quoted, but once again, wouldn't a "contact with callsign only" then yield the same result without the need for this trial (and what seems to be a bit of confusion) in the first place?
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Old 23rd Mar 2015, 14:54
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I apologize for being slow today.

Instead of the standard "greetings conversation" one now just says "hello standing by"? Something like a heavyweight RMZ? Why not simply the same used regularly on certain FISesseses: "<CALLSIGN> now on <FREQ>"? or is this too far from ICAO bureaucracy?

Further question, does Maastricht see our Mode-S? Why the call in that case, wouldn't a proactive squawk 7001 (or other) with Mode-S not also give the same "here I am, this is my name and I am listening" without even one call? This would even promote Mode-S further and would give us who spent a fortune for the S.XPDR a tiny feeling of it was some small kind of worth.
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Old 23rd Mar 2015, 23:19
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Following a messed up check-in with new sector (our fault, possibly?)

And completely 'missed' on the radar scope by the busy controller

Resulting in prolonged lost com

Found by subsequent sector on 121,5

I am about the figure out if a 'just culture' means just that



Perhaps this solves one problem, but another one is created? Give slots instead.
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Old 24th Mar 2015, 08:49
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Stand-by for Maastricht?

received a notice that a new "procedure" is coming....which in my opinion shows that the procedure makers are not regular flyers.

they state, "wait for a silence on the radio before"
saying you are standing by. Duh?

perhaps they could simply say as they do into STN, "contact xxx.x with call sign only" and I think most wait until the frequency is quiet. But how long? I think many try to be quick draw mcgraws after the end of the current transmission, but realistically; 1 sec? 2 sec? But we then appear to wait about the same time, then block each other out, some times several times, then ATC finally states a call sign and instruction. I have gotten to where I treat a busy frequency as a mini-loss of comms after the first blocked transmission and proceed as previously cleared and wait for them to call me.

If memory serves, flying into DFW in 90s, the approach frequency was often a full on broadcast from ATC and we just did what we were told whilst he went on to all the other aircraft. If an aircraft didn't do what it was told the ATC would come back with a stern voice telling that aircraft to do it NOW. I remember a king air that on the third transmission was given a 180 heading change and another frequency after two stern directions.

So they some how managed without multiple publications from the desk flyers.

Should be another fun summer ahead.
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Old 24th Mar 2015, 09:10
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You should try talking to Cairo. Now that is a difficult area, particularly if you need to descend or climb......or even just check in.
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Old 24th Mar 2015, 09:31
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Mode S and CPDLC should have solved this years ago...
But as long as this US/Europe war on gettin' a common standard is still ongoing, saturated R/T and crossed transmissions still have a good future.
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Old 24th Mar 2015, 10:16
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Not invented here.
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Old 24th Mar 2015, 10:23
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stator vane

Are you talking about Maastricht Control or Maastricht Airport?
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Old 24th Mar 2015, 10:41
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We tried using 'stand by with tower on xxx.x' for Ground to Tower transfers instead of 'monitor tower' for a few days about ten years ago. We swiftly went back to using 'monitor'.

For what MUAC seems to want, callsign only would appear to be the better fit.

Last edited by Gonzo; 24th Mar 2015 at 17:43.
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Old 24th Mar 2015, 13:07
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The full text is available, for example, on Facebook here https://www.facebook.com/eurocontrol?fref=nf as the OP forgot to post it.

It's just a gentle reminder to some who transmit first and listen second. Not a particularly big thing

Location STN? Didn't realise Stornoway was so busy :-)
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Old 24th Mar 2015, 13:22
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Location STN? Didn't realise Stornoway was so busy :-)
STN: Stansted Airport
SYY: Stornoway Airport

Doh.
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Old 24th Mar 2015, 14:05
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STN - Stornoway VOR

Doh!!


FWIW a bit of understanding how the system works at MUAC and other modern centres might explain things.
It is possible to access almost any info that ATC needs via the track block associated with any flight. Type, airspeed FL and ROC are all available. This removes athe need for a lot of R/T exchanges. A few minutes before the flight enters a sector the track symbol will begin to flash. When contact is established the controller will "assume" the flight thereby bringing the track block to the same level of brightness as the others under his control. At the same time, the track block on the previous sector will dim, indicating that it is no longer under his control.
This makes two R/T calls redundant - the acknowledgement of the QSY, and the acknowledgement of the initial call to the sector. In busy periods this can stack up considerably.

Be assured this will all have been looked at, possibly even a number of simulations run at Bretigny to discover what influence this has on a controller's workload and performance
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