Serco's crumbling Empire
Join Date: Aug 2002
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Oi Chilli, stop getting so pre-occupied with comprehension, and expand you vocabulary. This will negate the requirement for the use of ****s etc in your curt responses!!
Such language is typically SERCO management, but if my remarks are unfair then please accept my sincere apologies. I can accept that people do not wish to be associated with SERCO inappropriately.
Such language is typically SERCO management, but if my remarks are unfair then please accept my sincere apologies. I can accept that people do not wish to be associated with SERCO inappropriately.
Last edited by goddammit; 22nd Aug 2002 at 18:56.
Join Date: Nov 2000
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cranfield - the defence
I would like to put the record straight on behalf of Cranfield controllers, past and present.
The level of ATC professionalism has always been of a very high standard, just ask the relevant SRG examiners
, in the past movement rates have been in the order of 500-600 per day and even now are regulary 400-500 in a 10.5 hour day .
Not some cosy little number either where they all come at you in a nice stream from radar, but in an environment where multiple types and performance of aircraft are coming at you from all directions, to be integrated into a circuit that already has 4 trainers plus instrument training also.
Cranfield has been (and I'm sure will continue to be) a very good grounding for ATCOs. I would hesitate to claim that if you can work at Cranfield, then you can work anywhere, but it wouldn't be far off the mark
.
I know of Controllers from Cranfield who have gone on to work at Heathrow, Bournemouth, Liverpool, East Midlands and Bristol to name just a few places - and I can guarantee that each and everyone of them is grateful for their time spent at Cranfield.
Rant over.
The level of ATC professionalism has always been of a very high standard, just ask the relevant SRG examiners
, in the past movement rates have been in the order of 500-600 per day and even now are regulary 400-500 in a 10.5 hour day . Not some cosy little number either where they all come at you in a nice stream from radar, but in an environment where multiple types and performance of aircraft are coming at you from all directions, to be integrated into a circuit that already has 4 trainers plus instrument training also.
Cranfield has been (and I'm sure will continue to be) a very good grounding for ATCOs. I would hesitate to claim that if you can work at Cranfield, then you can work anywhere, but it wouldn't be far off the mark
.I know of Controllers from Cranfield who have gone on to work at Heathrow, Bournemouth, Liverpool, East Midlands and Bristol to name just a few places - and I can guarantee that each and everyone of them is grateful for their time spent at Cranfield.
Rant over.
Join Date: May 2002
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cranfield
is this the cranfield that had an aircraft inbound on a pan 5 minutes before closing? aircraft was told field closing in 5 minutes, and they closed befor he landed. aircraft landed under d&d control. this may not be the full story, but this is what it said in the safety pages in pilot.
Join Date: Aug 2002
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Hey Clipped Wings, how did you read that into what I said???
My point was that Serco.. VT(Airwork) and Safesky should stay out of ATC. Sad to say, but unify the lot and, perhaps, name it NATS.
I am not sad .... in fact I am very happy, thank you.
Last point .... don't like the idea of propoganda pushers.
My point was that Serco.. VT(Airwork) and Safesky should stay out of ATC. Sad to say, but unify the lot and, perhaps, name it NATS.
I am not sad .... in fact I am very happy, thank you.
Last point .... don't like the idea of propoganda pushers.
Join Date: Feb 2001
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Viscount2,
You'd better hope that you never have to turn to the likes of Serco for a job one day then. And if you know anything about ATC you'll know that anything is possible.
Listening to all the ranting and raving on here by NATS people banging on about how bad their management is, why are they any better?
At the end of the day we are all doing the same job, presumably because we enjoy it, in order to put food in our mouths and clothes on our back. Getting all high and mighty about how NATS is better than everyone else just makes you look petty and naive.
Unless it's all just a wind up. In which case......get a life!!!
You'd better hope that you never have to turn to the likes of Serco for a job one day then. And if you know anything about ATC you'll know that anything is possible.
Listening to all the ranting and raving on here by NATS people banging on about how bad their management is, why are they any better?
At the end of the day we are all doing the same job, presumably because we enjoy it, in order to put food in our mouths and clothes on our back. Getting all high and mighty about how NATS is better than everyone else just makes you look petty and naive.
Unless it's all just a wind up. In which case......get a life!!!
Join Date: Aug 2002
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Interesting response Red Dragon.
Wont be looking for a job with Serco, am retired having worked for them ALL during my career, thank you very much.
What bothers me is that not many of you mantion safety nowdays.... yeah, put food on the table and clothes on your back ... but as an ATCO, is that it??????
Who'se naive, .... is it really just a job nowdays?
One thing I agree with is sod the Management ... all of them!
Wont be looking for a job with Serco, am retired having worked for them ALL during my career, thank you very much.
What bothers me is that not many of you mantion safety nowdays.... yeah, put food on the table and clothes on your back ... but as an ATCO, is that it??????
Who'se naive, .... is it really just a job nowdays?
One thing I agree with is sod the Management ... all of them!
niknak
Join Date: Dec 2001
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I recently read that one of the many weird and wonderful projects Serco have is the "4 minute early warning system".
I know nothing about how it works, but you can imagine the scenario in the Serco and NATS world....
SERCo:
"OK guys, in 4 minutes you're all going to be toast....."
NATS:
"NATS are pleased to announce that trials of the early warning defence system are on going, and we hope to let you know sometime within the next 5 years of the possibility of the whole system becoming operational.
Negotiations are on going with the employees and unions as to whether the atcos and atsas involved in the project should be awarded a stress related pay award for dealing with the prospect of knowing the whole of the UK is about to be reduced to nothing.
The management consider that the award should reflect the relatively short time period that four minutes is in terms of paid employment, the employees consider that as part of the package, lunchon vouchers should be awarded to allow them to discuss scenarios in the canteen.
We hope to complete simulator trials shortly, and we will continue to stall for as long as.............. what the f**k is that bright light......!!!!!"
I know nothing about how it works, but you can imagine the scenario in the Serco and NATS world....
SERCo:
"OK guys, in 4 minutes you're all going to be toast....."
NATS:
"NATS are pleased to announce that trials of the early warning defence system are on going, and we hope to let you know sometime within the next 5 years of the possibility of the whole system becoming operational.
Negotiations are on going with the employees and unions as to whether the atcos and atsas involved in the project should be awarded a stress related pay award for dealing with the prospect of knowing the whole of the UK is about to be reduced to nothing.
The management consider that the award should reflect the relatively short time period that four minutes is in terms of paid employment, the employees consider that as part of the package, lunchon vouchers should be awarded to allow them to discuss scenarios in the canteen.
We hope to complete simulator trials shortly, and we will continue to stall for as long as.............. what the f**k is that bright light......!!!!!"
Join Date: May 2002
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Just stating the obvious in sace you missed it.
No - no kites. Denial is typical and common and a major indication of jealousy...
I was at Valley 73 - 74 Wattisham from 74 - 77 and Coltishall 77 - 81 Wittering 81 - 88. You?
No - no kites. Denial is typical and common and a major indication of jealousy...
I was at Valley 73 - 74 Wattisham from 74 - 77 and Coltishall 77 - 81 Wittering 81 - 88. You?
Join Date: May 2002
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Nope - wrong again. No chips - I was glad to leave the mil. I do not have a problem with privatisation in the right place. NATS is not it.
I don't doubt the professionalism of ATCO's anywhere unless I know them!
SERCO as a company is pretty dire. If you enjoy working for them that's your choice.
I don't doubt the professionalism of ATCO's anywhere unless I know them!
SERCO as a company is pretty dire. If you enjoy working for them that's your choice.
Join Date: Oct 2002
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I hear on the grapevine that the previously shelved contracting out of ATC at Norwich is now very much back on the minds of the "Senior Management".
Allegedly, 1 atco has lost their medical (
)and another is "long term sick" - not expected to return. Allegedly, with an additional atco also off sick until the start of December, this leaves them with a serious problem regarding staffing and the airports ability to cover the 24hr operation for mail flights.
Additionally, there are 4 others who intend to retire, (naturally or otherwise), in the next 3 years.
It appears that Norwich is one of the few UK airfields not to make provision for the future by training it's own atcos from scratch, and having a pool of staff available to cover for such eventualities.
Instead it relied upon the assumption that they would be able to recruit fully qualified and experienced staff from elsewhere. This appears to have back fired upon them, hence their current plight.
I understand that the contracting out process started last year, with NATS being the "favoured" provider, but it all came to a halt when the local authority decided to sell a majority stake in the airport.
However, it's now panic stations to get someone in to cover the
6 o'clock of the board - allegedly.....
Allegedly, 1 atco has lost their medical (
)and another is "long term sick" - not expected to return. Allegedly, with an additional atco also off sick until the start of December, this leaves them with a serious problem regarding staffing and the airports ability to cover the 24hr operation for mail flights.Additionally, there are 4 others who intend to retire, (naturally or otherwise), in the next 3 years.
It appears that Norwich is one of the few UK airfields not to make provision for the future by training it's own atcos from scratch, and having a pool of staff available to cover for such eventualities.
Instead it relied upon the assumption that they would be able to recruit fully qualified and experienced staff from elsewhere. This appears to have back fired upon them, hence their current plight.
I understand that the contracting out process started last year, with NATS being the "favoured" provider, but it all came to a halt when the local authority decided to sell a majority stake in the airport.
However, it's now panic stations to get someone in to cover the
6 o'clock of the board - allegedly.....
drip drip drip