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French ATC

Old 17th Oct 2013, 19:03
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MJR
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French ATC

French ATC, can anything be done before 100's if not 1000's of people needlessly die!
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Old 17th Oct 2013, 19:10
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MJR,

Are you sure your profile is correct? You sound more like a Journo from one of the red tops than a civil servant. If you expect any constructive replies you need to come up with some more details of the ATC problems that have activated your 'Shock, Horror' instincts.
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Old 17th Oct 2013, 19:40
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MJR
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How about continous use of inapproriate langauge leading to loss of situational awareness by aircrews.

Complete misuse of Air Traffic terminologies leading to ambiguity in instruction.

A childish mentality that ensures preferential treatment to French call signs, both in the air and on the ground.

How much more do you want?
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Old 17th Oct 2013, 20:13
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MJR.. it's only been going on for 50 years. Why change now?
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Old 17th Oct 2013, 22:16
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MJR,
"Air Traffic terminologies" implies a lack of situational awareness.
Would you kindly list the ratings/validations/licences that you hold/have held.
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Old 18th Oct 2013, 07:53
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And when, as a french atc, I talk with french pilots they complain because they consider they never have a preferential treatment in France...
By the way, where are your questions or your precise description of what need to be changed? Because I only found pointless rubbish in your post Mjr...
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Old 18th Oct 2013, 08:31
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No reason at all indeed. It was just an answer to mjr telling that AirFrance is always priviledged. We can'be criticized at the same time for giving priority to national carrier and not giving them priority! This only illustrates the fact that we do not take into account the nationality of the company.

Last edited by Nock; 18th Oct 2013 at 08:33.
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Old 18th Oct 2013, 11:59
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Ok I see your point.
The explanation the pilots gave me: "other countries such as Spain, UK, Germany give priority to their flag carrier so why wouldn't you do so in France?"
This shows how difficult for a pilot it is to understand what is going on when dealing with ATC and how biased the notion of priority is...
Nock
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Old 18th Oct 2013, 13:11
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I never gave priority other than that which was mandated...e.g. hospital flight. The rest just got slotted in as efficiently as I could (even if some carriers could not quite appreciate the bigger picture).
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Old 18th Oct 2013, 13:24
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<<"other countries such as Spain, UK, Germany give priority to their flag carrier...">>

As far as UK ATC goes, that is quite wrong. Many moons ago I showed an Air France crew around Heathrow ATC. The Captain said: "Why do you not give priority to British Airways as we get in France?".
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Old 18th Oct 2013, 14:18
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Cool

When all things are equal and two aircraft are equal contenders for that number one slot, be it number one to land, number one for the optimum flight level, who goes into the hold and who gets the straight-in, who gets slowed, who gets sped up there is only one consideration to be made. Who upgrades me when I fly with them. Leading contenders by a country mile are an airline with a "Boris" lookalike as head and an airline from the Persian Gulf that has a fleet of rather nice, large aircraft. Co-incidentally, both airlines make profits. Coincidence?
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Old 18th Oct 2013, 14:20
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I've never put any carrier ahead of another or seen a colleague do that either, unless categorised eg hosp flight. The traffic is positioned to what would be the most orderly and expeditious. It's keeps the cogs turning.
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Old 18th Oct 2013, 15:16
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On the odd occasion when I saw someone try to give some sort of unofficial priority they just gave themselves extra work and hassle.
That's so true!!!
I think all ATC would agree on legend about priority!
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Old 18th Oct 2013, 16:33
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I'm with onthebeach. Three letters, EPC. Easy as that.
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Old 18th Oct 2013, 19:26
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The only time that I have given priority to an airline was when faced with a 50/50 situation involving MEA and my "national airline" in the sandpit. The MEA got the straight in, keep your speed up approach! The reason: MEA crews often invited us on board their B707/720s to give us the latest UK newspapers and to have a glass of orange juice. Little things make all the difference!
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Old 18th Oct 2013, 19:52
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Apart from Mike Romeo
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Old 19th Oct 2013, 18:57
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Danair and the chocolate flights
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Old 19th Oct 2013, 19:39
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<<Apart from Mike Romeo>>

Aaahh... happy days..
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Old 21st Oct 2013, 13:05
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french atc

The assumption by some aircrew that certain airlines or traffic gets undue priority from some ATC operators always amuses me, as it betrays their complete misunderstanding of what is involved in organising a heavy & complex traffic loading.
Quite simply, ATC do not have the time or volition to rearrange traffic to suit favourite airlines or nationalities.
To do so would result in extra & an unwanted & complicated workload, & make a challenging situation even worse.
In 30 years I never did so; & I never witnessed any of my colleagues do so. Although, I did hear of one ATCO who avoided the stack at EGLL with a favourite airline of his, & he received a demotion as a result.
No names !
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Old 21st Oct 2013, 14:59
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kcockayne, have you ever flown over Europe?
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