Radar ATCO's paid less than TWR ATCO's?
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Radar ATCO's paid less than TWR ATCO's?
Just wanted to get some opinions and find out if this is happening anywhere else in the industry............
At a certain unit in the sandpit, and by coincidence, they have just adverstised for staff due to shortages......its my understanding that the approach radar guys and girls are picking up more shifts and averaging between 25&30 Hrs more a month than their tower counterparts.......FACT!
but are on the same benefits?!!
is this happening anywhere else?
any feedback welcome
At a certain unit in the sandpit, and by coincidence, they have just adverstised for staff due to shortages......its my understanding that the approach radar guys and girls are picking up more shifts and averaging between 25&30 Hrs more a month than their tower counterparts.......FACT!
but are on the same benefits?!! is this happening anywhere else?
any feedback welcome
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Well you need to do 3 or 4 personal roster adjustments per month.
What unit in the UAE is it.Dubai,Abu Dhabi,or Doha?
Guessing Doha.Isn't Serco riding in to help you out.
What unit in the UAE is it.Dubai,Abu Dhabi,or Doha?
Guessing Doha.Isn't Serco riding in to help you out.
Last edited by throw a dyce; 8th Sep 2013 at 06:17.
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Lol.......unfortunately personal roster adjustments require a piece of paper or you will loose some benefits!! We are meant to be getting help.........but to get back on par hours wise, we need a minimum of 6 and then the training time could be any where from 3-6 months!! That's an extra 180hrs or 18&1/2 days work for every approach bod..........is it DANGEROUS to have guys working that many hours a month (152) without a sensible recovery period between shifts?? I believe it is!!..........don't believe what they say.....slave labour is not abolished!!
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Not that unusual. I work at a Radar Unit in the UK on a low pay band, Controllers with Tower-only validity at a top pay band airport will earn about 25K GBP per annum more......and my rostered hours accrue time off in lieu as a permanent feature.
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Glamdring... I don't agree. Heathrow, Gatwick, Stansted, Farnborough and Luton all had approach radar at one stage so the controllers had to have dual validations. Never caused me any pain during my time at Heathrow.
The original question is interesting. I loved working in the tower but when the approach side was moved to LATCC I was glad to go. I was 49 at the time and was finding the tower hard graft whereas radar was always quite leisurely. I'm sure some won't agree!
The original question is interesting. I loved working in the tower but when the approach side was moved to LATCC I was glad to go. I was 49 at the time and was finding the tower hard graft whereas radar was always quite leisurely. I'm sure some won't agree!
At one time at Farnborough (late 70s), I held 9 validations, some of them for RAF Odiham. For this I had valid Aerodrome Control, Approach control, Approach Radar control, PAR and Area Radar ratings. We used two different radar heads (10cm and 50cm) which required separate validations. We often used Area Radar and Approach Radar simultaneously eg vectoring in the radar pattern and carrying out an autonomous airways crossing at the same time.
Last edited by chevvron; 8th Sep 2013 at 22:50.
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Guys, I think the main question has been misunderstood...........banding doesn't exist here, and dual validation is not a choice, ............let me put it another way, would you be happy working more hours than your counterpart at the unit ?....everything else being equal.......for less benefits? When solutions exist to spread the workload equally ! I personally think it creates a divide , hostility,and suggests that approach is in fact a second rate task to the tower.
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FMS,Under normal circumstances I would be very happy for my colleagues.......however it wasn't that long ago the shoe was on the other foot, tower were compensated and things returned to a level playing field.
As experienced ATC's we should all be on the same benefits .........not made to work more for less...... So I feel I am justified in my RANT .!!
As experienced ATC's we should all be on the same benefits .........not made to work more for less...... So I feel I am justified in my RANT .!!
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Hi 66, I am a bit confused, in your first post you are saying TWR and APP are on same benefits, but APP guys work 2-3 shifts more pr. month.
In your last post you say APP guys are paid LESS for MORE. So APP guys salary are lower than TWR guys? Or are they getting paid SAME for MORE?
In your last post you say APP guys are paid LESS for MORE. So APP guys salary are lower than TWR guys? Or are they getting paid SAME for MORE?
Radar ATCOS Paid Less Than Tower ATCOS
It has always been my experience that the BASIC discipline in ATC is Tower & the ADVANCED discipline is Approach & Approach Radar (at an Airfield).
The pay scales, wherever I have worked (including NATS), have ALWAYS reflected this.
I was at Jersey for the last 30 years & in the last couple of years we had a Tower only rated ATCO (failed Radar rating validation) who was on approximately half the rate of the lowliest Radar rated ATCO.
The standard progression was to obtain & validate your Tower rating first, & then move on to do the same with the APP & APP Radar ratings. Once you had done this (obtained & validated the APP & APP RDR)you then worked approximately 2 years before achieving PPR (access to the higher salary bracket).
We NEVER had Tower ONLY rated ATCOS who were on a remuneration that was anywhere near to Radar rated ATCOS. Those Radar rated ATCOS were, incidentally, all Tower rated & validated.
I hope that this is relevant to your situation.
The pay scales, wherever I have worked (including NATS), have ALWAYS reflected this.
I was at Jersey for the last 30 years & in the last couple of years we had a Tower only rated ATCO (failed Radar rating validation) who was on approximately half the rate of the lowliest Radar rated ATCO.
The standard progression was to obtain & validate your Tower rating first, & then move on to do the same with the APP & APP Radar ratings. Once you had done this (obtained & validated the APP & APP RDR)you then worked approximately 2 years before achieving PPR (access to the higher salary bracket).
We NEVER had Tower ONLY rated ATCOS who were on a remuneration that was anywhere near to Radar rated ATCOS. Those Radar rated ATCOS were, incidentally, all Tower rated & validated.
I hope that this is relevant to your situation.
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OmaATC, Basically app are working more hours for the same.
and in my opinion , in a far more pressurised environment than any tower could ever be!!?? After all should things get out off hand in the tower you have the preverbial STOP button, can't stop them once their airborne!
I'm not unhappy for the tower guys I just think its poor management of resources, and yet again the ground roots staff suffer. Lets be blunt about it FMS,
I Don't there is a person in the world that would be happy sitting back and saying nothing whilst working that many extra hours than their colleagues........is there? I mean would you be happy working an extra 30hrs, and doing more shifts than the guy next to you?
and in my opinion , in a far more pressurised environment than any tower could ever be!!?? After all should things get out off hand in the tower you have the preverbial STOP button, can't stop them once their airborne!
I'm not unhappy for the tower guys I just think its poor management of resources, and yet again the ground roots staff suffer. Lets be blunt about it FMS,
I Don't there is a person in the world that would be happy sitting back and saying nothing whilst working that many extra hours than their colleagues........is there? I mean would you be happy working an extra 30hrs, and doing more shifts than the guy next to you?
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Maybe APP is more busy than tower, but at least here in Abu Dhabi GND is the busy and difficult one.
We are still mostly dual rated over here, so a bit hard to compare, however, I feel a controller is a controller, and no ratings are superior to other ratings (unless you are south-african, as they all seem to think APP is the superior one.)
If you are all single rated in Doha, then comparing one to the other is like comparing apples to oranges. Who should be paid more? TWR, APP, ACC, dual or trippel rated people?
I am sure in your contract there is a stipulation of how many shifts and hours you should do during a month, and as long as you are within that no need to complain. If the guys with TWR ratings are working fewer shifts then great for them. If you are working more than your contract says, then you should be compensated for it, either with more pay or compensatory days off.
And to compare, I believe the guys at ACC gets paid more than me, and working fewer hours than me, but I don't cry about it...
Out of interest, are you getting paid more or less than the guys working ACC? (I believe it is Bahrain doing your area airspace?)
We are still mostly dual rated over here, so a bit hard to compare, however, I feel a controller is a controller, and no ratings are superior to other ratings (unless you are south-african, as they all seem to think APP is the superior one.)
If you are all single rated in Doha, then comparing one to the other is like comparing apples to oranges. Who should be paid more? TWR, APP, ACC, dual or trippel rated people?
I am sure in your contract there is a stipulation of how many shifts and hours you should do during a month, and as long as you are within that no need to complain. If the guys with TWR ratings are working fewer shifts then great for them. If you are working more than your contract says, then you should be compensated for it, either with more pay or compensatory days off.
And to compare, I believe the guys at ACC gets paid more than me, and working fewer hours than me, but I don't cry about it...
Out of interest, are you getting paid more or less than the guys working ACC? (I believe it is Bahrain doing your area airspace?)
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I completely agree that an Atco is an Atco, however.......Approach by its very nature, is more complex ( 3 d as opposed to 2 d ) most of us here have both ratings and some ,all off them!! Just not been given the opportunity or released to cross train. But that's not the point, the point is.... All of the staff that hold dual ratings but have not cross trained are on the exact same t&c's , it's not about the money, or time off either, it's about equality........... You can't expect some staff to work more hours than others doing the same task on the same contract and expect them to smile about it........ Can you? Would you?
I don't want to get into the t&c's intimate details, but suffice to say if yours mentions hours/ shifts............well done for getting that incorporated!!
As for the ACC, your right to a certain degree BAH have above a certain level , but we are autonomous below that, so carry out the ACC function to a limited degree combined with the approach.!!
And I' m sure you'd agree ACC by its very nature of multiple sectors and a complete radar environment , will always be the better paid discipline in ATC.
I don't want to get into the t&c's intimate details, but suffice to say if yours mentions hours/ shifts............well done for getting that incorporated!!
As for the ACC, your right to a certain degree BAH have above a certain level , but we are autonomous below that, so carry out the ACC function to a limited degree combined with the approach.!!
And I' m sure you'd agree ACC by its very nature of multiple sectors and a complete radar environment , will always be the better paid discipline in ATC.