Swanwick OJTIs resign??
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From: I sell sea shells by the sea shore
Swanwick OJTIs resign??
Just rumour that comes to me from a colleague at LACC on a different watch......
It appears that several ATCO2s on the top of the scale have "resigned their commissions" and handed in their training attestations (not that they had any for NERC, but thats another story)
Reasons? Apparently mostly morale related, although I dare say that the lack of much financial reward also played it's part.
I am also told that at least two of the Watch Training Managers may well also quit.
Discuss.....
Rgds BEX
(copied)
It appears that several ATCO2s on the top of the scale have "resigned their commissions" and handed in their training attestations (not that they had any for NERC, but thats another story)
Reasons? Apparently mostly morale related, although I dare say that the lack of much financial reward also played it's part.
I am also told that at least two of the Watch Training Managers may well also quit.
Discuss.....
Rgds BEX
(copied)
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From: Near Stalyvegas
Has a[n] {not so humble} ATSAII who has traind umpteen ATSAs [most of whom are now ATSAIIIs] Why am I "training for free" 
when ATCOs are getting paid
?
I know that it HAS to be done, but it don't make it any sweeter
we aim to please, it keeps the cleaners happy
when ATCOs are getting paid ?I know that it HAS to be done, but it don't make it any sweeter
we aim to please, it keeps the cleaners happy
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From: South of Iceland
NATS professes to want to be the best in the business.
Airlines pay ca £10000pa to training captains
NATS pays £1200pa (before tax) to ATCO OJTIs
(prior to 2001, if you were top of the scale you got diddly squat)
It is up to ATSAa and ATCOs not to sell themselves short. Remember every time you plug in with a trainee you are potentially putting your licence at risk. That risk should carry a price. That price should be paid by NATS.
Makes it all the more galling when non-operational instruction (no risk) gets ATCO2 scales, and OJTIs at airports (big risk) are restricted to ATCO3 scales.
Discuss
Airlines pay ca £10000pa to training captains
NATS pays £1200pa (before tax) to ATCO OJTIs
(prior to 2001, if you were top of the scale you got diddly squat)
It is up to ATSAa and ATCOs not to sell themselves short. Remember every time you plug in with a trainee you are potentially putting your licence at risk. That risk should carry a price. That price should be paid by NATS.
Makes it all the more galling when non-operational instruction (no risk) gets ATCO2 scales, and OJTIs at airports (big risk) are restricted to ATCO3 scales.
Discuss
Joined: Oct 2001
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From: London
well I for one will not be taking up training again... I have never particularly enjoyed doing it, and this spell without UT's has made me realise how much I hated it!
Maybe if more people felt like this then we might get more money for the extra work involved.
Maybe if more people felt like this then we might get more money for the extra work involved.
Joined: Jan 2001
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From: Deepest darkest Inbredland....
While I understand your feelings regarding training, please have some consideration for the trainees already in the system. They have been sitting around since January, getting very bored, through no fault of their own. Remember the very human aspect to your action. You may be affecting the people who could either help you get your leave, early retirement or even get a more reasonable break or even open sector 33! (I know the last is very implausable).
It isn't a matter of black and white.
It isn't a matter of black and white.
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From: I sell sea shells by the sea shore
The fault would appear to lie with NATS (mis-)management, not the (ex-) OJTIs. Do you see them (the management) taking any responsibilty?
Morale appears to be extremely low at NERC (and elsewhere). NATS is apparently a commercial organisation, a pity then that it fails to place much value on it's greatest asset, it's OPERATIONAL STAFF.
NFI seems to be the order of the day. How did we get to this state in such a short time?
Rgds BEX
Morale appears to be extremely low at NERC (and elsewhere). NATS is apparently a commercial organisation, a pity then that it fails to place much value on it's greatest asset, it's OPERATIONAL STAFF.
NFI seems to be the order of the day. How did we get to this state in such a short time?
Rgds BEX
Last edited by BEXIL160; 1st May 2002 at 22:52.
Thread Starter
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From: I sell sea shells by the sea shore
Sew the wind, reap the whirlwind..........
All a bit negative, so what should be done?
Start paying the OJTIs properly. A LARGE percentage of their wage perhaps?
Listen and ACT on the operational staffs' ideas and requests?
Admit that not everything in the garden is rosy, and that it is largely due to (lack of) management / leadership?
When NERC opened to great fanfare we were PROMISED a new start..... where is it?
Further suggestions welcome. You never know WHO might just read this stuff...
Rgds BEX
All a bit negative, so what should be done?
Start paying the OJTIs properly. A LARGE percentage of their wage perhaps?
Listen and ACT on the operational staffs' ideas and requests?
Admit that not everything in the garden is rosy, and that it is largely due to (lack of) management / leadership?
When NERC opened to great fanfare we were PROMISED a new start..... where is it?
Further suggestions welcome. You never know WHO might just read this stuff...
Rgds BEX
Joined: Jul 2001
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From: Fort Worth ARTCC ZFW
Bex;
I've been away at a safety conference, but I've been trying to catch up with all the stuff going on here...
I think that we've talked about it before, but over here we get a differential of 10% of our base pay for the hours spent training. Not worth it <G>...
regards
I've been away at a safety conference, but I've been trying to catch up with all the stuff going on here...
I think that we've talked about it before, but over here we get a differential of 10% of our base pay for the hours spent training. Not worth it <G>...
regards
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From: UK
OJTIs
Hi to all you NATs people,
I'm glad some of you get a financial incentive to carry on on as OJTIs. At our station there is no financial (or otherwise) reward for training and, as said before, it does blunt your performance. Wish I could jack it in!!!
Crapaud
I'm glad some of you get a financial incentive to carry on on as OJTIs. At our station there is no financial (or otherwise) reward for training and, as said before, it does blunt your performance. Wish I could jack it in!!!
Crapaud
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From: Greystation
Terrain Safe - you should also have consideration for those who have been sat around since January 2001 at Nerc doing the feed positions for no extra, or actually, LESS reward. People are always going to be affected by such problems, but would you decide against action because of it if you eventually become an OJTi??
Roger Out - those at the top of the scale are handing in their training bags as they get NO extra pay for it. OJTI's are awarded the next rung on the pay scale ladder, so once your at the top, there's no more to be had. Don't know if its permitted to just 'jack it in' whenever you like as we are all contracted to be trainers, like it or not.
Roger Out - those at the top of the scale are handing in their training bags as they get NO extra pay for it. OJTI's are awarded the next rung on the pay scale ladder, so once your at the top, there's no more to be had. Don't know if its permitted to just 'jack it in' whenever you like as we are all contracted to be trainers, like it or not.
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From: South of Iceland
Give a thought to all those ATCOs who put their licence on the line every day training people. No thanks, and precious little compensation. Training captains with the airlines get up to £10k for doing the job ! ATCOs get £1200 a year (if they're lucky).
Tell them to **** off. We're worth more than that. But no-ones got the balls to say "No".
ATCOs at CATC get more then operational ATCOs and don't risk their livelihoods. So why should we ?
Stand up and have the balls to fight - or be ****ed forever
Tell them to **** off. We're worth more than that. But no-ones got the balls to say "No".
ATCOs at CATC get more then operational ATCOs and don't risk their livelihoods. So why should we ?
Stand up and have the balls to fight - or be ****ed forever
Joined: Jan 2001
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From: Deepest darkest Inbredland....
I don't think it matters whether OJTI's train or not at the moment at LACC as there are no Mentor boxes to be had. Apparently they keep breaking. As training has only just started they can't have worn out, so they must be c***.
Still I suppose the chairs work!
Still I suppose the chairs work!
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From: Melbourne
Scott. I don't work in the UK but I assume they are what we down under would call a training box. Ie the box you plug in when OJT that allows you to override the trainee. When we went to our new system the new training boxes were found to occasionally crash the Voice Switching/Frequencies system hence they went out of favour very quickly. I haven't seen anyone use one for ages.
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From: Down South
We have a few Mentor boxes people, but as you rightly say they are a little on the Lada side of the Engineering scale. They're bloody great big things too!! If you want one I believe you have to pop into your local friendly systems control and ask for one, and we'll endeavour to get you one, but I'm not sure about the actual procedure. I've had my grubby little hands on about 5 in the past month to fix or bin. They look good though.
