Bombing Missions from the UK
I did hear a story that during the Suez crisis, Egyptian radar actually provided a radar service to the inbound bombers totally unaware they were about to be on the receiving end.
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: That France
Posts: 251
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Legal Tender - tedious, eh? I take it you never worked there then....
Well I did, well I at least 'attended', for 22 years or thereabouts, ie a major part of my working life, and nearly half of my entire life, so I found it far from 'tedious'.
You must have had a different kind of lobotomy to me, because I retained the ability to ignore threads I don't want to be part of..... or is that too obvious?
Well I did, well I at least 'attended', for 22 years or thereabouts, ie a major part of my working life, and nearly half of my entire life, so I found it far from 'tedious'.
You must have had a different kind of lobotomy to me, because I retained the ability to ignore threads I don't want to be part of..... or is that too obvious?
Guest
Posts: n/a
Mad Jock
Re MAYDAY and intercept.
I recall the Red Arrows being on a training run in East Anglia where they popped up low level and actually caused a 'Clockwork Mouse' to flip over.
The 'Mouse' had four high profile jockeys on board on the way to a meet up north. The pilot managed to get control back but it made the national papers.
Good advice to call MAYDAY.
Cheers
Re MAYDAY and intercept.
I recall the Red Arrows being on a training run in East Anglia where they popped up low level and actually caused a 'Clockwork Mouse' to flip over.
The 'Mouse' had four high profile jockeys on board on the way to a meet up north. The pilot managed to get control back but it made the national papers.
Good advice to call MAYDAY.
Cheers
Beady Eye
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 1,495
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I used to be one of the controllers taking the B1 bombers out (and back) from Fairford to conduct attacks near the former Yugoslavia. In UK it was standard use of military controllers in the civilian Ops room (LJAO, London Joint Area Operations) to get these guys through/across the airways system and hand them off to French Military.
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Milano
Age: 53
Posts: 460
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
When you say 'outside territorial waters (over 12 miles) does this mean that no one really has authority over the Atlantic once you get more than 12 miles out then ?
And then there are the rogue countries like North Korea that have decided to set their own (much wider) boundary and to deal accordingly with "intruding" foreign vessels. In that case if engaged there is nothing you can do, short of returning fire, to escape capture. The North Koreans are not known for being particularly reasonable people.
Last edited by Dg800; 6th Feb 2013 at 14:35.
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Berkshire, UK
Age: 79
Posts: 8,268
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The B1s sometimes routed LYD-WOD under civil ATC. As it was quiet at 2am they were often cleared to descend to an altitude and promptly fell out of the sky, resulting in them passing over our house with deafening noise at a few thousand feet!
@Heathrow Director
I hope you are talking about GAT military flights, because I've never seen any fighter jet inbound a theater of war subject to a flow regulation
I hope you are talking about GAT military flights, because I've never seen any fighter jet inbound a theater of war subject to a flow regulation
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 2,584
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You could equally ask the same question of how the Reds get to Akrotiri and back each year. I'm sure its just the same military "secret".
The earnest sanctimoniousness over the most trivial of (often very ancient) military details on this forum is sometimes nothing but hilarious. One wonders whether those prone to such outbursts actually know anything at all of the matters involved or are just feigning Protection of Protected Knowledge. One can guess.
Thanks for providing a good chuckle!
The earnest sanctimoniousness over the most trivial of (often very ancient) military details on this forum is sometimes nothing but hilarious. One wonders whether those prone to such outbursts actually know anything at all of the matters involved or are just feigning Protection of Protected Knowledge. One can guess.
Thanks for providing a good chuckle!
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: On a foreign shore trying a new wine diet. So far, I've lost 3days!
Age: 75
Posts: 394
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
HD was probably off duty on all the occasions that the UK has been attacked by hostile fighters.
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: 34.02.S 151.07.E
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The question of how a fast jet is going to intercept a 90knt spam can
More than just an ATCO
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Up someone's nose
Age: 75
Posts: 1,768
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From the UK, eastbound with Eastern , hand off to Dutch Mil, then Lippe , making a dog leg round Belgium and back to DIK, then with Reims towards DJL. Flight plan cancelled somewhere over the Med.
At night, slightly shorter, Dutch Mil transferred it to MUAC, then dct DJL, straight through Belgium. I suppose Glons was asleep.
At night, slightly shorter, Dutch Mil transferred it to MUAC, then dct DJL, straight through Belgium. I suppose Glons was asleep.
Last edited by Lon More; 7th Feb 2013 at 12:43. Reason: typo
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Starring at an Airfield Near you
Posts: 371
Received 15 Likes
on
7 Posts
First:
To Tomahawk PA 38: Apologies for appearing rude in response for your understandable curiosity. However, shortage of time and my ability to use a mobile device in a less than conducive situation for tapping out a response digit by slow digit, obviously detracted from what I hoped was a pithy, light-hearted, but well-intentioned remark on a subject that, despite the protestations of some here, can have unintended consequences.
Second:
To Vercingetorix: I’ll have you know I did over 25 years at the military coal face as an ATCO and as Unit Security Officer at 3 locations and Communications Security Officer at 2. Later I was employed on HQ duties with responsibility for dealing with just these issues. Therefore, you ‘picked the wrong one’ to have go at, as I suspect I know a sight more about “military procedures or the IC(Civil) AO convention” on operating with Due Regard than you suspect - or know yourself. Moreover, if you did any time at all in the military the Security and Comsec training you received was obviously completely wasted. If you weren’t in the military then I suspect that is you and not me that is speaking from a position of disadvantage.
Third:
To Piltdown Man: Whereas I concur the thrust of your post with respect to our elected leaders, especially Blair (whom you describe so eloquently), it is not the likes of that scumbag (to use your phrase) that ends up carrying the can when ‘the guns begin to shoot’; it’s the poor s*ds in the airframes that take the risk. Matters of operational detail are – most decidedly - exactly what should NOT be discussed on a public forum as chevvron quite rightly responded. By all means, call our elected leaders (after all, they are supposed to work for us) to account for THEIR actions and demand that clear and honest answers are given to extremely pertinent questions that you raise (good luck with that!), but don’t put the Tommies at risk in doing so. As an aside, it was his election that decided me to leave the Service I loved so much as his credentials were plain for all to see.
Fourth: The OP was clearly not about how the military conduct their day-to-day operations viz OAT/GAT or DAT which is unclassified and freely available; it was plainly seeking information on operational procedures and methods ie live bombing operations – look at the thread title. Although an ‘interesting subject’* and worthy of an answer there are some things that should not be gratuitously talked about. Anyone who has ‘done time’ in the military knows that intelligence is built up over a period-of-time – the jigsaw metaphor is frequently used. This thread has/d the potential for someone to ‘gob off’ and perhaps impart another piece of something that could, when added to other pieces, start forming – or confirm - a whole. It is a fascinating, immensely absorbing, skill and relies heavily on gobsh1tes trying to look impressive to their peers - or a forum audience. To see how intelligence can be garnered and pieced together, I recommend RV Jones’ Most Secret War as an introductory title.
Finally: I do recall that when one became a UK ATCO, you were ‘invited’ to sign the OSA. It may be different now; but a reminder of ones responsibility to others that go in harm’s way on your behalf may be appropriate.
*another ‘interesting subject’ was why Argentinean bombs were not detonating aboard ships of the Grey Funnel line in 1982, to which the media promptly provided the answer.
To Tomahawk PA 38: Apologies for appearing rude in response for your understandable curiosity. However, shortage of time and my ability to use a mobile device in a less than conducive situation for tapping out a response digit by slow digit, obviously detracted from what I hoped was a pithy, light-hearted, but well-intentioned remark on a subject that, despite the protestations of some here, can have unintended consequences.
Second:
To Vercingetorix: I’ll have you know I did over 25 years at the military coal face as an ATCO and as Unit Security Officer at 3 locations and Communications Security Officer at 2. Later I was employed on HQ duties with responsibility for dealing with just these issues. Therefore, you ‘picked the wrong one’ to have go at, as I suspect I know a sight more about “military procedures or the IC(Civil) AO convention” on operating with Due Regard than you suspect - or know yourself. Moreover, if you did any time at all in the military the Security and Comsec training you received was obviously completely wasted. If you weren’t in the military then I suspect that is you and not me that is speaking from a position of disadvantage.
Third:
To Piltdown Man: Whereas I concur the thrust of your post with respect to our elected leaders, especially Blair (whom you describe so eloquently), it is not the likes of that scumbag (to use your phrase) that ends up carrying the can when ‘the guns begin to shoot’; it’s the poor s*ds in the airframes that take the risk. Matters of operational detail are – most decidedly - exactly what should NOT be discussed on a public forum as chevvron quite rightly responded. By all means, call our elected leaders (after all, they are supposed to work for us) to account for THEIR actions and demand that clear and honest answers are given to extremely pertinent questions that you raise (good luck with that!), but don’t put the Tommies at risk in doing so. As an aside, it was his election that decided me to leave the Service I loved so much as his credentials were plain for all to see.
Fourth: The OP was clearly not about how the military conduct their day-to-day operations viz OAT/GAT or DAT which is unclassified and freely available; it was plainly seeking information on operational procedures and methods ie live bombing operations – look at the thread title. Although an ‘interesting subject’* and worthy of an answer there are some things that should not be gratuitously talked about. Anyone who has ‘done time’ in the military knows that intelligence is built up over a period-of-time – the jigsaw metaphor is frequently used. This thread has/d the potential for someone to ‘gob off’ and perhaps impart another piece of something that could, when added to other pieces, start forming – or confirm - a whole. It is a fascinating, immensely absorbing, skill and relies heavily on gobsh1tes trying to look impressive to their peers - or a forum audience. To see how intelligence can be garnered and pieced together, I recommend RV Jones’ Most Secret War as an introductory title.
Finally: I do recall that when one became a UK ATCO, you were ‘invited’ to sign the OSA. It may be different now; but a reminder of ones responsibility to others that go in harm’s way on your behalf may be appropriate.
*another ‘interesting subject’ was why Argentinean bombs were not detonating aboard ships of the Grey Funnel line in 1982, to which the media promptly provided the answer.
