Controller / Pilot information crossover
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Controller / Pilot information crossover
When I first started flying we would typically see a controller on the third crew seat a couple of times a year. Invariably good conversations were had in the cruise and all three of us gained something from them. They were often followed by a visit to the tower / radar room which were always useful.Post September 11th I have never had the pleasure of having a controller in the flight deck(even though it is relatively easy to organise).
Have just watched a skybrary video which gives an interesting introduction into general principles of emergency operation on the flightdeck. We are in the process of making more detailed short videos on number of specific emergency situations and would appreciate feedback on a couple of issues.
1. Once completed would these be of interest to you as an individual (or would you suggest I supply it blind to NATS).
Alternatively
2. How much interest would there be in controllers taking the fourth seat in a simulator. Typically sessions would be broken down into 2.5 hour emergency/non precision approch test period and / or a 1.5 hour non normal "training" session focusing on several aircraft system failures.
I believe some airlines do offer this... but I have never met a controller who has been on one (and I have been for a beer or two with many). You could sit in on one or both (only pilots happy with an observer in the "test" environment would be used). Be happy to buy you a coffee but I wouldn't be able to get the airline to pay expenses etc.Look forward to your response.
Have just watched a skybrary video which gives an interesting introduction into general principles of emergency operation on the flightdeck. We are in the process of making more detailed short videos on number of specific emergency situations and would appreciate feedback on a couple of issues.
1. Once completed would these be of interest to you as an individual (or would you suggest I supply it blind to NATS).
Alternatively
2. How much interest would there be in controllers taking the fourth seat in a simulator. Typically sessions would be broken down into 2.5 hour emergency/non precision approch test period and / or a 1.5 hour non normal "training" session focusing on several aircraft system failures.
I believe some airlines do offer this... but I have never met a controller who has been on one (and I have been for a beer or two with many). You could sit in on one or both (only pilots happy with an observer in the "test" environment would be used). Be happy to buy you a coffee but I wouldn't be able to get the airline to pay expenses etc.Look forward to your response.
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300-600,
I'm sure many ATCOs would jump at the chance of observing simulator sessions. When Manchester Centre was operational, we often had pilots come and sit in on our TRUCE days, (Training in Unusual Circumstances And Emergencies), which was found to be beneficial. Depending on the time available, a few pilots spent time on the ATC simulator, which they found useful too.
We also had 'pilot-controller forum' evenings at a local pub, often attended by up to 100 people.
Pre 9/11, the Familiarisation Flight landscape was very different. I believe going back into the 1980s and 90s, NATS even had its own Fam-Flight section to help organise these trips. They counted as 'duty time' too, and attracted a small subsistence allowance, something which would give today's 'business managers' nightmares. Sadly, accountants do not understand the benefits of 'famil'.
A few ATCOs from my era enjoyed their cockpit trips so much, they left ATC and became pilots.
Add to this that most en-route, (and many approach) ATCOs now no longer work near major airports, and the fact that many have no interest in aviation and it is easy to see why these valuable opportunities are not taken up.
I spent many hours in jump-seats, and was always made to feel welcome, (especially by the 2 gentlemen whose company had mistakenly told them I was a CAA Flight Ops inspector).
I certainly hope your ideas come to fruition, please let us know how you get on.
I'm sure many ATCOs would jump at the chance of observing simulator sessions. When Manchester Centre was operational, we often had pilots come and sit in on our TRUCE days, (Training in Unusual Circumstances And Emergencies), which was found to be beneficial. Depending on the time available, a few pilots spent time on the ATC simulator, which they found useful too.
We also had 'pilot-controller forum' evenings at a local pub, often attended by up to 100 people.
Pre 9/11, the Familiarisation Flight landscape was very different. I believe going back into the 1980s and 90s, NATS even had its own Fam-Flight section to help organise these trips. They counted as 'duty time' too, and attracted a small subsistence allowance, something which would give today's 'business managers' nightmares. Sadly, accountants do not understand the benefits of 'famil'.
A few ATCOs from my era enjoyed their cockpit trips so much, they left ATC and became pilots.
Add to this that most en-route, (and many approach) ATCOs now no longer work near major airports, and the fact that many have no interest in aviation and it is easy to see why these valuable opportunities are not taken up.
I spent many hours in jump-seats, and was always made to feel welcome, (especially by the 2 gentlemen whose company had mistakenly told them I was a CAA Flight Ops inspector).
I certainly hope your ideas come to fruition, please let us know how you get on.
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I agree that visits for both sides are really worthwhile, it's been a long time since I saw a pilot at LACC. NATS apparently have agreements in place with certain airlines for famils and (I believe it's called) STAC sim training. EZY, BAW, and BEE spring to mind. I don't think MON are part of our agreement, but I know they've been excellent in the past helping to arrange famils for ATCOs. Our booking process for has recently changed too and is unnecessarily complicated, which doesn't help encouraging people to take them up. Spaces also seem to be really limited unfortunately, whereas before you could submit requests for dates/routes. Using your own initiative and arranging one yourself is apparently frowned upon!
I agree with Zooker(!), I'm not sure office staff appreciate how valuable these are for us. How can we adapt the way we control if we never get chance to speak to flight crews?! I think it should be part of our licensing that we go on a fam flight even once every 24 months or so. There must be a lot of pilots out there that've never visited an ATC centre too. In terms of your videos, NATS Safety department would be the best place to send them.
I agree with Zooker(!), I'm not sure office staff appreciate how valuable these are for us. How can we adapt the way we control if we never get chance to speak to flight crews?! I think it should be part of our licensing that we go on a fam flight even once every 24 months or so. There must be a lot of pilots out there that've never visited an ATC centre too. In terms of your videos, NATS Safety department would be the best place to send them.
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I think many ATCO's would jump at the chance of being on the sim during flight trianing.
I am not sure about this, but it is something that should become more common as NATS are introducing SIM flt sessions as part of our CPD (Continuous Proffesional Development) and may welcome more help from airlines.
I am sorry I do not know a name or phone number.
Hopefully someone will come up with one on this forum.
I am not sure about this, but it is something that should become more common as NATS are introducing SIM flt sessions as part of our CPD (Continuous Proffesional Development) and may welcome more help from airlines.
I am sorry I do not know a name or phone number.
Hopefully someone will come up with one on this forum.
Last edited by Over+Out; 27th Sep 2012 at 07:35.
