Cleared to destination
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,648
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From: UK
Cleared to destination
Occasionally when flying to regional airports in Germany I have been, from some distance away, "cleared to destination". Does ATC care whether I point at
a) the aerodrome reference point
b) a convenient IAF for the destination or
c) the centrefix, knowing I'll get vectors for an ILS
?
a) the aerodrome reference point
b) a convenient IAF for the destination or
c) the centrefix, knowing I'll get vectors for an ILS
?
Joined: Aug 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 1,221
Likes: 128
From: Near Stuttgart, Germany
Hello!
That's quite common here. Usually, at the distance they give you that clearance (got one yesterday from almost 200NM away!) your three options a, b and c lie within the same degree of heading so it dosen't really matter. If there is a significant distance between those points, I choose one that is most convenient for the type of approach to be expected and ask if it is OK to fly there. Until now, that has always been granted.
Another interesting direct-to-clearance here is something like "direct twentyone twelve" (got that one yesterday too....) which translates to direct 12 miles final runway 21. If in doubt, ask!
Regards - max
That's quite common here. Usually, at the distance they give you that clearance (got one yesterday from almost 200NM away!) your three options a, b and c lie within the same degree of heading so it dosen't really matter. If there is a significant distance between those points, I choose one that is most convenient for the type of approach to be expected and ask if it is OK to fly there. Until now, that has always been granted.
Another interesting direct-to-clearance here is something like "direct twentyone twelve" (got that one yesterday too....) which translates to direct 12 miles final runway 21. If in doubt, ask!
Regards - max
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,648
Likes: 2
From: UK
We may have crossed paths yesterday. Mine was a clearance to Augsburg from somewhere around Mannheim. Clearly, it doesn't matter much to the Frankfurt controller who gave me the clearance. The question is more about what the Munich controller expects as I near Augsburg. In practice, I imagine the Munich controller would simply give me an instruction that suited him -- either a heading or an IAF, as he did in that case. But I did wonder, as I flew towards the 25 centrefix, if he thought "why is this guy not tracking to the airport?"
Never heard that one, though it seems to be more common to issue direct to a waypoint on the RNAV transition (e.g. MA012), which is convenient for everyone.
Well that's true, but the point is that I want to know what the instruction means without having to ask. If it's ambiguous without clarification, it's not a very good instruction.
Another interesting direct-to-clearance here is something like "direct twentyone twelve" (got that one yesterday too....) which translates to direct 12 miles final runway 21.
If in doubt, ask!
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1
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From: Dubai
Cleared to destination
ICAO states the phrase "Cleared to destination" may NOT be used. This is basically to ensure that the ATC and Pilot are on the same page/flight plan.
The are quite a few requirements before ATC can clear you to your final destination. Basically controlled to controlled airspace, but then ATC must specifically name the destination.
The rules keep changing though.
The are quite a few requirements before ATC can clear you to your final destination. Basically controlled to controlled airspace, but then ATC must specifically name the destination.
The rules keep changing though.
Joined: Jan 2003
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From: south saturn delta
Although I give the clearance "direct destination" from time to time, I must confess I have no idea what it precisely means - working in upper area control, we sometimes get it from the approach unit and pass it on to the pilots; so far nobody has questioned it...and for me it makes no difference, as has been mentioned, the destination being normally so far away that it can be only 1-2 degrees difference.
I had expected the pilots to take it as "proceed direct IAF", which would also be the only thing that makes sense in case of coms failure.
Any approach controllers here who use it and can tell us what they expect?
I had expected the pilots to take it as "proceed direct IAF", which would also be the only thing that makes sense in case of coms failure.
Any approach controllers here who use it and can tell us what they expect?
More than just an ATCO
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 1,773
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From: Up someone's nose
Cleared to Destination" is a carry over from Ye Goode Olde Dayes when each unit would issue a clearance as you entered their airspace (mainly because radar was not available and they wanted to know where you should be after you'd crashed)/This devolved into, "Cleared Destination, Flight Plan Route'" which earned generations of controllers a thick ear.
Not knowing the ins and outs of a distant approach unit I would issue "Cleared direct destination" as an instructin to set course direct there. If you know the Runway in use and the IP no problems. In the \\UAS several hundred miles from there it's no big thing. I'd expect the instruction to be refined as you got closer.
Not knowing the ins and outs of a distant approach unit I would issue "Cleared direct destination" as an instructin to set course direct there. If you know the Runway in use and the IP no problems. In the \\UAS several hundred miles from there it's no big thing. I'd expect the instruction to be refined as you got closer.
