North Sea airspace redesign
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 110
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From: North of the Wall
Sympathise with your internal issues within NATS
. Nevertheless, if we (all of us as controllers, whether civil or military) can get some decent airspace out of this review to keep my fast pointy things away from your-not-so-fast and not-so-pointy things then it might be worth it.
TM - you're right. The Eurofrighter will require a greater volume of airpsace to train in - by all accounts this doesn't mean the military will get more airpsace by volume, but stuff will be reorganised to give us larger chunks generally free of traffic. I believe that an airway from Norwich to ADN via NCL is being smiled on at high level (no pun intended) as part of this reorganisation.
But then what would I know, I'm only a controller...
. Nevertheless, if we (all of us as controllers, whether civil or military) can get some decent airspace out of this review to keep my fast pointy things away from your-not-so-fast and not-so-pointy things then it might be worth it. TM - you're right. The Eurofrighter will require a greater volume of airpsace to train in - by all accounts this doesn't mean the military will get more airpsace by volume, but stuff will be reorganised to give us larger chunks generally free of traffic. I believe that an airway from Norwich to ADN via NCL is being smiled on at high level (no pun intended) as part of this reorganisation.
But then what would I know, I'm only a controller...
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 474
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From: Ayrshire, Scotland
Cuddles - can you explain how this might affect helicopter services ?
One of the main reasons for moving Sector 33 ( and later S7/31) is to allow LACC to do further resectorisation of the airspace where the big delays occur. There wont be qualified enough staff at LACC to do this and all the existing sectors. ScACC's staff projections allow for this expansion to take place.
It also helps balance the size of the centres when you combine all this and MACC, in Prestwick, you get a substantial sized unit at both ends of the country.
One of the main reasons for moving Sector 33 ( and later S7/31) is to allow LACC to do further resectorisation of the airspace where the big delays occur. There wont be qualified enough staff at LACC to do this and all the existing sectors. ScACC's staff projections allow for this expansion to take place.
It also helps balance the size of the centres when you combine all this and MACC, in Prestwick, you get a substantial sized unit at both ends of the country.
Joined: May 1999
Posts: 343
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From: UK
I believe that Prestwick has a case for being the UK's flagship now based on cost-effectiveness. Ain't I a bigger devil? 
MAAS, sorry, but I'm not daring/daft enough to post stuff from the NATS intranet on here, but I can't speak for my colleagues
MAAS, sorry, but I'm not daring/daft enough to post stuff from the NATS intranet on here, but I can't speak for my colleagues
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
From: Bardufoss, Norway
Is the UK going to implement the "Flexible use of airspace", as outlined bye Eurocontrol? From what I have heard, you have a pretty static airspace, in regard to segregation of military and civilian traffic.
A system where the military only control airpace when required (not H24) must be optimal, or what?
(But than again I might have misunderstood everything, since I don't know your airspace that well!
)
A system where the military only control airpace when required (not H24) must be optimal, or what?
(But than again I might have misunderstood everything, since I don't know your airspace that well!
)
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 341
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From: ISZ - not the end of the world, but you can see it from here.
Findo
When the oil support helis (Of which there are a fair few) are in radar cover, they generally receive a RAS (in so many words) in the northern and southern north sea. These new 'danger'? areas will be active at various levels, from the surface to nosebleed. The helis will have to fly, as without them the UK offshore oil industry would grind to a halt, and we're going to have to do the best we can, military traffic permitting. I am less than keen on giving services in danger areas, the pilots are less than keen on not getting a service in a danger area, so, when the fighters are on the deck, the helis are going to be in the doo doo
It'll be, erm, interesting. Eurofighter 500 kts, S76 145 kts. Avoiding action means that you've still got the heli in the same place, just pointing another direction.... - The SNS is already like this to a certain extent, but the NNS will be getting a real shock.
Also there's one less pair of eyes per airprox with a single seater.
When the oil support helis (Of which there are a fair few) are in radar cover, they generally receive a RAS (in so many words) in the northern and southern north sea. These new 'danger'? areas will be active at various levels, from the surface to nosebleed. The helis will have to fly, as without them the UK offshore oil industry would grind to a halt, and we're going to have to do the best we can, military traffic permitting. I am less than keen on giving services in danger areas, the pilots are less than keen on not getting a service in a danger area, so, when the fighters are on the deck, the helis are going to be in the doo doo
It'll be, erm, interesting. Eurofighter 500 kts, S76 145 kts. Avoiding action means that you've still got the heli in the same place, just pointing another direction.... - The SNS is already like this to a certain extent, but the NNS will be getting a real shock.
Also there's one less pair of eyes per airprox with a single seater.
Last edited by Cuddles; 3rd April 2002 at 16:42.
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 110
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From: North of the Wall
Having said all that Cuddles
Eurofrighter - 500kts (and more) @ 50,000'
Just think of all those frustrated Tornado F3 drivers who have never been above 20,000' upgrading to the Typhoon . It'll take a long time for the novelty of seeing space to wear off
AA
Eurofrighter - 500kts (and more) @ 50,000'
Just think of all those frustrated Tornado F3 drivers who have never been above 20,000' upgrading to the Typhoon . It'll take a long time for the novelty of seeing space to wear off
AA
More than just an ATCO
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 1,773
Likes: 1
From: Up someone's nose
Cuddles
No mention of helicopter ops AFAIK: it was just controlled airspace.
The only people who seemed to have nothing to do were the military types - perhaps they could give a lot of their airspace back to those who need the room?
At least the sun was shining outside.
No mention of helicopter ops AFAIK: it was just controlled airspace.
The only people who seemed to have nothing to do were the military types - perhaps they could give a lot of their airspace back to those who need the room?
At least the sun was shining outside.
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 341
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From: ISZ - not the end of the world, but you can see it from here.
Lon
I'm fairly sure the chaps in blue want to play down to the surface, with the 'protection' of danger area status or similar, and as far as I know, no successful underwater helicopter has been developed, so when the areas are active to the surface, the helis will have to fly in there.
Hang on I've had an idea
Sat Sun Mon Tues Weds, the helis get to go out to the rigs, Thurs Fri the helis stay at home, and the 'Oh sorry, didn't see you there' brigade get to play to their hearts content.
I'm fairly sure the chaps in blue want to play down to the surface, with the 'protection' of danger area status or similar, and as far as I know, no successful underwater helicopter has been developed, so when the areas are active to the surface, the helis will have to fly in there.
Hang on I've had an idea
Sat Sun Mon Tues Weds, the helis get to go out to the rigs, Thurs Fri the helis stay at home, and the 'Oh sorry, didn't see you there' brigade get to play to their hearts content.
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 74
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From: my house
slightly off tangent but - most of us working in TC in the London ( surely the only real ) TMA are aware that the "donation" of airspace to the Mil in the North Sea will hasten the development of the eastern extension of B4, easing the hellhole of TC NW.
whatever those involved at the moment may think, there will be many a TC North valid atco who will be most grateful come the day that sector is not so life shortening.
whatever those involved at the moment may think, there will be many a TC North valid atco who will be most grateful come the day that sector is not so life shortening.
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 14
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From: Bardufoss, Norway
Sat Sun Mon Tues Weds, the helis get to go out to the rigs, Thurs Fri the helis stay at home, and the 'Oh sorry, didn't see you there' brigade get to play to their hearts content.
