Ready for departure
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Ready for departure
Hi all,
At the radio field I fly from, it's accepted practice to call "ready for departure " at the holding point. The a/g operator can then read back known traffic and winds. Next call is usually "lining up". A stopway is available for departing traffic, only accessible by entering the active and backtracking.
Today, due to full fuel and a (cough) large passenger, I decided to backtrack, announced I was "ready for departure" at the holding point as usual and then called "backtracking 02". I was then admonished by the a/g operator who said "if you wanted to backtrack you weren't ready for departure". I had always understood that ready for departure is the correct call to give before entering the active runway - I then announced I was backtracking for the benefit of downwind traffic. Wouldnt have thought it was necessary to announce this prior to entering the active at a field where the decision to enter the runway was entirely at my discretion, and the radio operator cannot give instructions anyway? Happy to be corrected on this of course! Would appreciate people's peoples' views!
At the radio field I fly from, it's accepted practice to call "ready for departure " at the holding point. The a/g operator can then read back known traffic and winds. Next call is usually "lining up". A stopway is available for departing traffic, only accessible by entering the active and backtracking.
Today, due to full fuel and a (cough) large passenger, I decided to backtrack, announced I was "ready for departure" at the holding point as usual and then called "backtracking 02". I was then admonished by the a/g operator who said "if you wanted to backtrack you weren't ready for departure". I had always understood that ready for departure is the correct call to give before entering the active runway - I then announced I was backtracking for the benefit of downwind traffic. Wouldnt have thought it was necessary to announce this prior to entering the active at a field where the decision to enter the runway was entirely at my discretion, and the radio operator cannot give instructions anyway? Happy to be corrected on this of course! Would appreciate people's peoples' views!
Well I suppose you could have said 'full length departure' but with A/G it's not essential. Did you inconvenience anyone by backtracking? If not, the radio operator,(who isn't required to even see the runway) seems to have exceded his authority. If he's got a 'beef' then he should fill in an incident report, not b0ll0ck you so everyone else hears.
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Originally Posted by taxistaxing
it's accepted practice to call "ready for departure " at the holding point
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Ready for departure means times the majority of time consuming actions and checks which would delay an immediate departure have been completed. It was also reasonable for you announce that you were about to backtrack because in doing so your movement adds to the A/G station's knowledge of known traffic. But if you have any more conflict the next time you go flying you might want to tell the A/G operator about a marvellous little publication called CAP 413. It's all about radio phraseology and if they look in Chapter 4, page 7 they'll see what "Ready for departure" means. But the bit that should really concern you when next fly from your airfield is Chapter 4, page 32 onwards - the section about Air/Ground radio.
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Thanks for the replies so far. The aerodrome in question is busy with a variety of ex mil types and warbirds, which I think is why more calls than usual are expected. That seems sensible enough to me - I suppose my concern was that being b0llocked by the operator for not announcing I was going to backtrack when calling ready seemed to imply his response might have been different if I had - when in fact all he could do was tell me about the downwind traffic I already knew about (which hadn't even called final when I lined up). There's generally a culture of pilots incorrectly calling up to "request taxi" etc. which as a low hours ppl myself makes it quite a confusing environment to operate in!
The other a/g field I have experience of is Stapleford where the operators seem to say very little generally.
The other a/g field I have experience of is Stapleford where the operators seem to say very little generally.
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I'll refrain from revealing the exact aerodrome, as it seems quite a tight-knit place and I don't want to name and shame in public (unlike the radio operator in question !!!) 
I'm not saying it's the case here, but many people still assume that an FRTOL 'covers' you for AGCS. In fact it doesn't; you still need to possess a Certificate of Competence to operate an Air/Ground radio station which needs to be signed by the radio station licence holder, so maybe this guy hasn't got the requisite C of C?
I am an authorised examiner by the way, but this is always a bit of a 'grey' area.
I am an authorised examiner by the way, but this is always a bit of a 'grey' area.
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okay okay - it's a good guess.
Generally seems a great field to fly from. Good mix of types, nice long runway.
I've only just revalidated my PPL - I was used to a tower field when I first learned which is obvioulsy a lot more disciplined and controlled then A/G. Had a bit of a scare a couple of weeks ago at the hold when someone landed the wrong way along the active runway - was mystified as to why I couldn't see him when he called final
There's also model flying going on most weekends which I was surprised by - although to be fair they seem pretty well drilled and stay away from the active.
All part of the ongoing learning experience I suppose...
Generally seems a great field to fly from. Good mix of types, nice long runway.
I've only just revalidated my PPL - I was used to a tower field when I first learned which is obvioulsy a lot more disciplined and controlled then A/G. Had a bit of a scare a couple of weeks ago at the hold when someone landed the wrong way along the active runway - was mystified as to why I couldn't see him when he called final
There's also model flying going on most weekends which I was surprised by - although to be fair they seem pretty well drilled and stay away from the active.
All part of the ongoing learning experience I suppose...
Last edited by taxistaxing; 14th May 2012 at 16:33.
I remember doing a couple of drag racing events there back in about '85. First time I got eliminated in the first round, second time I qualified but for some reason couldn't get the engine started for the first round of competition. Did Bitteswell twice that year too and posted my fastest ever time (Zip Kart with a 250cc Honda moto cross engine) of 12.78 seconds; the official world record then was 13.875!
Last edited by chevvron; 15th May 2012 at 08:55.
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The simple way of answering your own question is too ask yourself what statement would have been most beneficial statement to anyone else in the ATZ. There are quite a few calls that can help other pilots position and plan their circuit. Using common sense rather than a rule book is what situational awareness is about.
PS I agree with everyone about the A/G operator and his non standard call did nothing for anyone else in the ATZ or GA!
PS I agree with everyone about the A/G operator and his non standard call did nothing for anyone else in the ATZ or GA!
Last edited by Pull what; 15th May 2012 at 13:26.
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seperated by a common language.
as a YANK, I didn't really understand much...AG operator? departure?
I am guessing you are flying from an UNCONTROLLED FIELD using UNICOM or MULTICOM procedures AKA CTAF.
Departure is more a term used with an IFR clearance. I would say TAKEOFF...I might say, with a right standard departure.
I would say: SuperDuper123 taking off runway 31, back taxiing for full length
AT best I might hear...wind 320 at 7, reported traffic on the left downwind a tiger moth.
Be cool next time...let people know you plan to BACK TAXI as we call it...but I will tell you this...your AG operator is not a flight instructor or controller, so next time he says something you don't agree with just say:
You were blocked...say again
until he won't say it no more!
as a YANK, I didn't really understand much...AG operator? departure?
I am guessing you are flying from an UNCONTROLLED FIELD using UNICOM or MULTICOM procedures AKA CTAF.
Departure is more a term used with an IFR clearance. I would say TAKEOFF...I might say, with a right standard departure.
I would say: SuperDuper123 taking off runway 31, back taxiing for full length
AT best I might hear...wind 320 at 7, reported traffic on the left downwind a tiger moth.
Be cool next time...let people know you plan to BACK TAXI as we call it...but I will tell you this...your AG operator is not a flight instructor or controller, so next time he says something you don't agree with just say:
You were blocked...say again
until he won't say it no more!
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Oddly enough, I have had a very similar issue at the airfield where I am based. This has an information service, and the controllers will frequently respond "report lined up," or sometimes "report lining up" when I report ready for departure.
Apart from possible confusion between the two phrases, does " lining up" apply as soon as you leave the hold , or only when you have reached the numbers and are pointing in approximately the right direction?
I was sufficiently concerned over this to take a look at the CAP, and if I understand it correctly, the only time you should be asked to report lined/ing up is when you are cleared to backtrack the runway. It is not a correct response to the call "ready for departure."
Can anyone out there state whether this is right?
Apart from possible confusion between the two phrases, does " lining up" apply as soon as you leave the hold , or only when you have reached the numbers and are pointing in approximately the right direction?
I was sufficiently concerned over this to take a look at the CAP, and if I understand it correctly, the only time you should be asked to report lined/ing up is when you are cleared to backtrack the runway. It is not a correct response to the call "ready for departure."
Can anyone out there state whether this is right?
It's used to expedite traffic by allowing an aircraft at the holding point to line up when the runway is still occupied by another aircraft. A FISO cannot say 'line up and wait' as an ATCO can, so it's the next best thing, and is very useful when you have several in the circuit plus one or two departures.
Last edited by chevvron; 16th May 2012 at 23:17.