Crossing restrictions outside the US

[Check Airman]

In the US, while at cruise, we are usually instructed to begin our descent via one of 2 methods:

1. ABC123, descend FL240- whereby we start an immediate descent.

2. ABC123, cross XYZ at FL240- Here, it is (rightfully or wrongfully) interpreted to mean "at pilot's discretion, descend to cross XYZ at FL240". This is how pretty much all the Captains interpret it, and I've never had ATC ask why we are still level several minutes later.

My question is, if flying outside the US (Europe in particular) and ATC says "descend to cross XYZ at FL240", am I allowed to start descending when I please?

Thanks!

[belk78]

Yes. Nevertheless, my clearance would be something like "descend at own discretion FLXXX to cross XYZ at FLXXX "

[Chilli Monster]

Check Airman - reversing the question slightly. Phraseology outside the US is often:

"When ready, descend FL........ To be level X miles before .......XYZ"

Simple, plain, unambiguous English. So why do so many US crews (mainly Military admittedly) not realise this is a Pilots discretion descent and either power down there and then or ask "Can we have that descent at Pilots discretion sir?"

[Check Airman]

Thanks Belk.

Chilli,

The instruction is unambiguous English. Bear in mind that most of us on this side of the pond have English as a second language (American being the first).

Seriously though, I can't give you a good answer to that. Maybe it's because they hear that there are slightly different terms used outside the US, and they're searching for the more familiar term "pilot's discretion".

[topdrop]

In Australia, an instruction to change level is to be commenced within one minute, unless "When ready" is included.
So

2. ABC123, cross XYZ at FL240

requires commencement of descent within 1 minute.

[Not Long Now]

If the clearance is to cross XYZ at FL 200 say, then that, for me, in the UK, is when ready. Descend FL200, no restriction stated, means descend starting now, and minimum 500fpm, and at your discretion or when ready means exactly that.

[Check Airman]

Thanks guys. I may be doing some international flying soon, so I've been trying to do some homework.