Pushback procedure
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2011
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From: Istanbul
Pushback procedure
Hi
If there is no restriction about the direction of pushback and the phrase is that "pushback approved for rwy (active rwy)" , what will be the aircraft's position
Do i have to say " face to west etc." I say the active rwy, so aircraft's position will be facing to active rwy, won't it ?
If there is no restriction about the direction of pushback and the phrase is that "pushback approved for rwy (active rwy)" , what will be the aircraft's position
Do i have to say " face to west etc." I say the active rwy, so aircraft's position will be facing to active rwy, won't it ?
Joined: Jul 2004
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From: On the wireless...
Just describe it as you want it, in plain language if necessary, e.g.. Push face West abeam Stand X to let out blah blah, leave room for blah blah to park, when you taxy you'll be going to the outer at Block blah blah (OK, ok, I know it's all changed to funny numbers and funny clearance limits these days....).
CAP413 went out of the window at Heathrow GMC...it had to....wouldn't work otherwise. Just be clear, assertive and positive to achieve what you want to make it work, stuff the RTF Police, ATSD won't mind...
CAP413 went out of the window at Heathrow GMC...it had to....wouldn't work otherwise. Just be clear, assertive and positive to achieve what you want to make it work, stuff the RTF Police, ATSD won't mind...
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2011
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From: Istanbul
In clearly, today I said that only "pushback approved rwy 06(it is facing west)" but pilot insisted to say which position face to west or east? I said that again for rwy 06 is it mean that face to rwy 06?
Joined: Oct 1999
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From: Anywhere
Ltfj
The pilot is not a mind reader. Telling him the runway has no connection with what direction he needs to face, it's just telling him the runway in use. The pilot does not know your traffic situation, which taxi route you require, what other traffic he might block. That's up to you, and the way you remove all doubt from the equation is by giving him a direction to face, or anything else you require.
As others have said - be decisive, be assertive, remove all doubt.
The pilot is not a mind reader. Telling him the runway has no connection with what direction he needs to face, it's just telling him the runway in use. The pilot does not know your traffic situation, which taxi route you require, what other traffic he might block. That's up to you, and the way you remove all doubt from the equation is by giving him a direction to face, or anything else you require.
As others have said - be decisive, be assertive, remove all doubt.
Joined: Apr 2008
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From: SW
AIP
Where I work we also have published on AIP, for each stand, to wich position and facing direction the aircraft should be after pushback, according to rwy in use. You'd be surprised how often they do not comply... A few ATCOs really can't be bothered and a wrong PB will automatically get the aircraft a ticket for last in line for departure 
Not that there'd be much of an alternative with our layout, but that's for different thread 
Personally I find it much easier to just say "PB and SU approved facing xxx" and stick with my planning...
Not that there'd be much of an alternative with our layout, but that's for different thread Personally I find it much easier to just say "PB and SU approved facing xxx" and stick with my planning...
Joined: Feb 2009
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From: Australia
Over here we may say
"QFA123 pushback approved."
We then address the tug
"Yellow one push onto tango tail east."
and this will get the aircraft pointed in the right direction.
If you don't have tugs the same thing will work as long as the person controlling the ground movement gets the message for instance if they use one of those remote control tugs.
"QFA123 pushback approved."
We then address the tug
"Yellow one push onto tango tail east."
and this will get the aircraft pointed in the right direction.
If you don't have tugs the same thing will work as long as the person controlling the ground movement gets the message for instance if they use one of those remote control tugs.
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2011
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From: Istanbul
Thansk for information everyone..
We have also published in AIP as "unless otherwise notified by ground control, pushback shall be done to the direction of the runway" so i said to pilot i don't have to say face to... but he insisted to say, face to which
We have also published in AIP as "unless otherwise notified by ground control, pushback shall be done to the direction of the runway" so i said to pilot i don't have to say face to... but he insisted to say, face to which
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 353
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From: Around
Yours may be the third or fourth different airport the pilots have visited that day, and they almost certainly haven't studied the pushback instructions in your AIP entry. As CM said above, they have no idea what your traffic situation is and where you want them to leave the apron if there are multiple taxiways. It's not their job to guess these things, it's our job to give them clear and unambiguous instructions.
Joined: Sep 2007
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From: London
A bit off topic this question, but come someone confirm whether it is individual airlines rather than ATC that control pushback and taxiing in aprons at major US airports? If so how does the system work?
Joined: Sep 2007
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From: EU
Thansk for information everyone..
We have also published in AIP as "unless otherwise notified by ground control, pushback shall be done to the direction of the runway" so i said to pilot i don't have to say face to... but he insisted to say, face to which
We have also published in AIP as "unless otherwise notified by ground control, pushback shall be done to the direction of the runway" so i said to pilot i don't have to say face to... but he insisted to say, face to which
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2011
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From: Istanbul
So now you have a proof that the notification in AIP simply doesn't work as you expect. A pilot - when in doubt - will ask you and it's your job to provide assistance. IMHO saying "face XXX" instead of "rwy 06" takes the same time but is significantly more helpful to the crew.
Joined: May 2011
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From: Amman
my $0.02
As a pilot operating A320 to around 40 destination on a turn around, trust me when I tell you crew rarely if ever read AIP with regard to ground operations.
Every airport has its peculiarities, and on a 40 min turn around we rarely ever read those things, I seriously appreciate a simple and straight forward clearance "pushback face east" is alot more common and useful than "pushback for RWY 6 approved.
Remember crew don't have every airport layout memorized, my home base controllers frequently use clearance that are tougher for us than other operators because they know we have the layout figured out.
In one airport I got "pushback approved runway 36" which lead me to pushback to face to the south exit of the apron, which made sense only to see another plane coming in through that same exit. When I asked I was told to extend further backwards to allow that traffic to enter my stand, and was told that next time "please confirm the direction with us first"
Trust me when I say I could care less but if he told me "Pushback face north" it would have been easier to everyone.
Every airport has its peculiarities, and on a 40 min turn around we rarely ever read those things, I seriously appreciate a simple and straight forward clearance "pushback face east" is alot more common and useful than "pushback for RWY 6 approved.
Remember crew don't have every airport layout memorized, my home base controllers frequently use clearance that are tougher for us than other operators because they know we have the layout figured out.
In one airport I got "pushback approved runway 36" which lead me to pushback to face to the south exit of the apron, which made sense only to see another plane coming in through that same exit. When I asked I was told to extend further backwards to allow that traffic to enter my stand, and was told that next time "please confirm the direction with us first"
Trust me when I say I could care less but if he told me "Pushback face north" it would have been easier to everyone.
Joined: Mar 2005
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From: In the rain
If you have a very complicated pushback system the best people to talk to are the tug drivers and push back crews who work at the airport.
I personally won't have the first clue which way to push unless the instruction is N/E/S/W or similar but if saying "cleared push for 06" to the tug driver means something to him then I'll happily do that. The problem arises when the tug driver then asks me which way to push...
S.
I personally won't have the first clue which way to push unless the instruction is N/E/S/W or similar but if saying "cleared push for 06" to the tug driver means something to him then I'll happily do that. The problem arises when the tug driver then asks me which way to push...
S.
Joined: Jul 2004
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From: Norway
I work at oslo Airport Gardermoen.
Here it is stated in the AIP, and the tug-drivers always know what kind of pushback to do. If the crew require a special pushback that day (wind, slippery on turnaround etc.) they simply ask that in plain language. Works like a charm.
Here it is stated in the AIP, and the tug-drivers always know what kind of pushback to do. If the crew require a special pushback that day (wind, slippery on turnaround etc.) they simply ask that in plain language. Works like a charm.
Joined: Jan 2008
Aviation Qualifications: Non-Aircrew
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From: UK
Where I am there are "standard" pushes published for each stand.
The pushback crews are required to know and carry an up to date copy of these in each tug and to monitor the GMC frequency.
For standard pushes the only instruction required from GMC is "push/start approved .............".
For non standard pushes the GMC uses whatever phrases clearly describe what is required.
Non standard pushes cannot be issued when hand signals only are being used to communicate with the pushback crew.
Seems to work well with few problems.
For a standard push no pilot instruction/message as to direction etc is required.
The pushback crews are required to know and carry an up to date copy of these in each tug and to monitor the GMC frequency.
For standard pushes the only instruction required from GMC is "push/start approved .............".
For non standard pushes the GMC uses whatever phrases clearly describe what is required.
Non standard pushes cannot be issued when hand signals only are being used to communicate with the pushback crew.
Seems to work well with few problems.
For a standard push no pilot instruction/message as to direction etc is required.
