Aircraft holding on Rapid Exit Taxiway
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Aircraft holding on Rapid Exit Taxiway
Landed at a UK airfield last week, during daylight, and on the roll out we proceeded to take the first RET (a common exit at this airfield for airliners of our type). However as we started to turn following the RET markings I noticed a light aircraft (single engine Cessna) was holding on the RET waiting to line up, so took control from the 'other guy' as he had not noticed the aircraft (he was rightly concentrating on keeping the aircraft on the RET centreline) and continued to the next available exit.
ATC had not informed us the RET was not available, neither had the NOTAMS or ATIS.
As the Cessna was holding halfway down the RET, making it hard to see, if we had continued a little further before seeing the Cessna it would have been very difficult to stop before squashing it.
Is it within the regs to have an aircraft holding for departure on a RET? If so are you supposed to notify landing aircraft? I assume it should be handled in the same way a taxiway closure is, NOTAM'd and broadcast on ATIS, and if cant be, passed to pilot via radio?
Thoughts?
ATC had not informed us the RET was not available, neither had the NOTAMS or ATIS.
As the Cessna was holding halfway down the RET, making it hard to see, if we had continued a little further before seeing the Cessna it would have been very difficult to stop before squashing it.
Is it within the regs to have an aircraft holding for departure on a RET? If so are you supposed to notify landing aircraft? I assume it should be handled in the same way a taxiway closure is, NOTAM'd and broadcast on ATIS, and if cant be, passed to pilot via radio?
Thoughts?
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File on this as soon as you can. From your description this could be a very relevant safety issue. Nobody will get on your back, and you may save a life. Use CHIRP if you need an alternative reporting method....and think about a night scenario/poor vis/small aircraft against background lights etc.
Rgds.
Rgds.
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ASR already filed. 
Didnt get a chance to speak to the controller, wanted to get an ATC perspective on the event. However from your response you seem just as shocked as we were.
Didnt get a chance to speak to the controller, wanted to get an ATC perspective on the event. However from your response you seem just as shocked as we were.
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I think ATC should have told the pilot which exit to use. It's not only aeroplanes which may be on an RET. During runway inspections, the vehicle doing the checking might leave the runway and hold on an RET until cleared back to continue the inspection. Good practice for ATC to specify an exit in such circumstances...
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As already mentioned, it's not good practice but there are times when it may be the best or only solution to a problem of moving traffic around an airport. There's no universal rule to my knowledge that says it mustn't happen but I would expect the controller to issue information or an instruction to ensure that no aircraft vacates on the RET in question.
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It was pretty poor of ATC to have put or allowed an aircraft to get to that position in the first place and then not to tell you about it. We have RETs and even the runway checker vehicles know not to block them against the flow of traffic.
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OK ATC made a mistake and it isn't best practice.However there might not be another suitable area to put a Cessna,especiallly when that traffic may delay departures.Then pilots moan about that.
I can think of an Airport (PD) that would grind to a halt,if ATC couldn't use exits to hold at well down the runway.This a combination of old WW2 layout,little investment in taxiways,and the airport operator leasing out areas which makes taxiing to these areas a one way system.
ATC would be trying to tell the pilot who is obviously braking hard for the first taxiway,take the 2nd.I have seen a controller get moaned at for doing this at a ''critical time''.Also ATC have told pilots take the second exit,and then they take the first.Then they are head-to head with a 10 ton helicopter.
Mind you the airport didn't have Rapid Exit Taxiways,despite ATC requesting one over 30 years ago.
I can think of an Airport (PD) that would grind to a halt,if ATC couldn't use exits to hold at well down the runway.This a combination of old WW2 layout,little investment in taxiways,and the airport operator leasing out areas which makes taxiing to these areas a one way system.
ATC would be trying to tell the pilot who is obviously braking hard for the first taxiway,take the 2nd.I have seen a controller get moaned at for doing this at a ''critical time''.Also ATC have told pilots take the second exit,and then they take the first.Then they are head-to head with a 10 ton helicopter.
Mind you the airport didn't have Rapid Exit Taxiways,despite ATC requesting one over 30 years ago.
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BOAC, I was thinking the same, I couldn't think of a polite way of saying it, but I am glad you were so blunt ;-)
A pumps, don't know what the procedure is over there, but you can use "land after" vacating, putting it at the pilots discretion to land or make missed approach, this could have happened as it was daylight hours?
A pumps, don't know what the procedure is over there, but you can use "land after" vacating, putting it at the pilots discretion to land or make missed approach, this could have happened as it was daylight hours?
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BOAC - Thanks for your input
How do you know what is happening around the airfield, maybe on a different frequency? Oh forgot you must be the only pilot around.
As TAD mentioned there could be a hundred and one reasons why the RET needed to be used.
How do you know what is happening around the airfield, maybe on a different frequency? Oh forgot you must be the only pilot around.
As TAD mentioned there could be a hundred and one reasons why the RET needed to be used.
Last edited by Fly Through; 17th Mar 2011 at 12:02.
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Stay in the pub! If you really are an ATCO, you might let us know which airfield you might turn up to work at so we can be braced for the "Take the xxx exit" call.
NEVER in 43 years of aviation has an ATCO TOLD me when to turn off the runway, and I hope none ever do. Many times I have been advised of availability. I guess I must be the only pilot you know who likes to do his own braking on landing. Gawd 'elp us.
NEVER in 43 years of aviation has an ATCO TOLD me when to turn off the runway, and I hope none ever do. Many times I have been advised of availability. I guess I must be the only pilot you know who likes to do his own braking on landing. Gawd 'elp us.
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BOAC take a moment to do a little research on these forums and my past can be worked out quite easily. Your argument really has gravitas when you immediately play the poster and not the post itself. Frankly what do I know after only 20 years, I'll go back to work and leave you to your rocking chair.
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Not wanting to pour fuel on the fire, but a quote from Rules of the Air 2007;
Seem to remember this is one of the first things you learn as a PPL. You land, you exit ASAP.
Landing and take-off
14
(4) Subject to paragraph (5) a flying machine shall move clear of the landing area as soon as it is possible to do so after landing.
(5) Paragraphs (2) and (4) shall not apply if the air traffic control unit at the aerodrome otherwise authorises the flying machine or glider.
14
(4) Subject to paragraph (5) a flying machine shall move clear of the landing area as soon as it is possible to do so after landing.
(5) Paragraphs (2) and (4) shall not apply if the air traffic control unit at the aerodrome otherwise authorises the flying machine or glider.
BOAC: regretfully there is a tendency amongst less experienced controllers to say 'vacate next right/left' to a landing aircraft, and equally regretfully their OJTI's don't correct them. I always said 'vacate next CONVENIENT left/right'.
As soon as they get their first tyre burst due to a pilot braking harshly to make the next turnoff, they change their tune, but I really think it's the training colleges' fault for not teaching them the vagaries of the system to begin with.
As soon as they get their first tyre burst due to a pilot braking harshly to make the next turnoff, they change their tune, but I really think it's the training colleges' fault for not teaching them the vagaries of the system to begin with.
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Originally Posted by FT
Your argument really has gravitas when you immediately play the poster and not the post itself.
chevvron - thank you - that is my understanding of the correct way too.
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As a fairly new valid controller I can say that at the college for NATS does not teach us to use the phrase "take next right/left" and I haven't used it at my unit once either.
If I need an aircraft to miss a link (for traffic purposes) or make a speedy exit (minimum time on runway, not specifying and exit) I will let them know before landing clearance, not in the middle of breaking but hey that's just me.
If I need an aircraft to miss a link (for traffic purposes) or make a speedy exit (minimum time on runway, not specifying and exit) I will let them know before landing clearance, not in the middle of breaking but hey that's just me.
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<<NEVER in 43 years of aviation has an ATCO TOLD me when to turn off the runway, and I hope none ever do.>
Guess you never operated into a busy airport, BOAC! During my meagre 20+ years in the tower at Heathrow I frequently specified precisely where I wanted an aircraft to leave the runway. With parallel taxiways adjacent to the runways it was often necessary to avoid bangs.
I don't know what the College teaches nowadays but when I was brung up, the guy in the tower was responsble for separating traffic and providing a good service to aircraft. If that involved specifying where aircraft should leave a runway then that's what he should do... and he should have enough training to ensure that he knows a bit about aircraft performance.
Guess you never operated into a busy airport, BOAC! During my meagre 20+ years in the tower at Heathrow I frequently specified precisely where I wanted an aircraft to leave the runway. With parallel taxiways adjacent to the runways it was often necessary to avoid bangs.
I don't know what the College teaches nowadays but when I was brung up, the guy in the tower was responsble for separating traffic and providing a good service to aircraft. If that involved specifying where aircraft should leave a runway then that's what he should do... and he should have enough training to ensure that he knows a bit about aircraft performance.