Thinking of becoming an ATCO
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Thinking of becoming an ATCO
Hi all, I have for the last 15 years worked in aviation, avionic maintenance fixed wing and rotary, Tornado simulators, technical author etc mostly MoD contracts, I am pondering to restart my career as an ATCO as my husband is soon to lose his job with BAE on the Harriar (Thanks Mr Cameron) and we are thinking of swapping roles, me going back out to work and dear hubby staying at home to look after our son. I have looked at NATS which offers a salary whilst training, done the maths and we can survive on the money for the 11 month training, but my concern is, does the pay after that, at a unit which will undoubtadly be Prestwick or Swanwick, of 15K have to pay for accomadation and travelling as well or do we get a living allowance. At the moment 15k would only be suffiecient for working close to home as I cannot afford both my mortage and rent to live elsewhere. The long term prospects are excellent but the short term costs have to work out. Also do I understand correctly we do not get fully quallified and earning good salaries until after two years after finishing the college course ie 3 years in total? At 38 years old, although I come from a good aviation background and have a good 20 years plus emplyment still ahead of me, am I deluding myself with this change of career? The alternative is a dead end job at the local Tesco's!!! Thanks in advance for any advice.
Catherine
Catherine
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Hi Catherine. IMHO. the most significant factor against you is your age. 38 is a little late to be starting in ATC, although you can expect a few people to say they did so! However, just keep it in mind. You might well be able to cope at a less busy unit, but the problem is to get into the profession to start with. Not only do you need certain qualifications, and avionics maintenance isn't really much to do with ATC, but you also need to pass a stringent medical. If you have any health problems, especially with eyes, ears and heart, you should speak to the Medical Branch at Gatwick. NATS is undoubtedly the best route into the job as other options usually cost money. One possibility would be an ATC Assistant position at a non-NATS airfield, but pay would not be too good. However, such employers do tend to get their ATCOs from their ATCAs and they would sponsor you for training.
I don't know the current rules but once you get posted to your permanent NATS station I don't think you could claim any allowances. After the College courses you then have to train at a unit, which can take a year and nobody will known until you start that training whether you will eventually qualify. However, if you do then the pay and conditions are excellent.
Best of luck and don't hesitate to ask any questions on here...
I don't know the current rules but once you get posted to your permanent NATS station I don't think you could claim any allowances. After the College courses you then have to train at a unit, which can take a year and nobody will known until you start that training whether you will eventually qualify. However, if you do then the pay and conditions are excellent.
Best of luck and don't hesitate to ask any questions on here...
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Hi,
I think you'll find that on graduating from the College if you go to Swanwick or Prestwick you'll be paid £18.5K pa. (The £15K pa is for the lower paid units.) There are no extra allowances. Some NATS trainees qualify for income support, so it would be worth checking with the DSS. Once you validate (ie become qualified on your first sector) then you'll get £32.8K at Swanwick or Prestwick (possibly plus £5K pa shift allowance, I'm not sure as I work at an airport). You will only get onto the 'big bucks' pay scale after you've been with the Company for 3 years. Be aware that some people take the full 3 years just to validate. Financially it can be tight initially, but it's a great job with good prospects and excellent remuneration. Hope this is of some use.
Regards, ADIS
I think you'll find that on graduating from the College if you go to Swanwick or Prestwick you'll be paid £18.5K pa. (The £15K pa is for the lower paid units.) There are no extra allowances. Some NATS trainees qualify for income support, so it would be worth checking with the DSS. Once you validate (ie become qualified on your first sector) then you'll get £32.8K at Swanwick or Prestwick (possibly plus £5K pa shift allowance, I'm not sure as I work at an airport). You will only get onto the 'big bucks' pay scale after you've been with the Company for 3 years. Be aware that some people take the full 3 years just to validate. Financially it can be tight initially, but it's a great job with good prospects and excellent remuneration. Hope this is of some use.
Regards, ADIS
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Fred Bloggs... Beryl Quock... Harold Prot... Count Jim Moriarty..
Anything else you want? Fact is that just because an ATCO can't validate at a busy unit doesn't mean they are finished, far from it. If someone I was training didn't make it, I would impress upon them that it wasn't the end of the road - far from it. Some I saw fail went on to be excellent controllers elsewhere and, later, become Watch Managers.
Anything else you want? Fact is that just because an ATCO can't validate at a busy unit doesn't mean they are finished, far from it. If someone I was training didn't make it, I would impress upon them that it wasn't the end of the road - far from it. Some I saw fail went on to be excellent controllers elsewhere and, later, become Watch Managers.
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HD That's not the point.You have stated that
That is patronising in the extreme.
It is nice to know that she will be able to get by at one of NATS quiet units.
THOSE were the names I was asking you for.I am sure that my fellow ATCO's around the country would love to know which category you believe they fit in to.
You might well be able to cope at a less busy unit
That is patronising in the extreme.
It is nice to know that she will be able to get by at one of NATS quiet units.
THOSE were the names I was asking you for.I am sure that my fellow ATCO's around the country would love to know which category you believe they fit in to.
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Hi all, thank you all for you comments and advice, some more helpful than others. I was trying to get across with my background that I believe I have the aptutude to go to NATS and do the course as I have a good knowlege of aircraft landing systems and intruments as I have programmed flight simulaters with runway and approach information and have co-organised, installed and tested a huge anti collision installation for the RAF. More to avionic maintenance than some people think! Thanks for the info on pay upon graduation,much better than I thought. I am unsure though if I can risk a year on a course only to be posted somewhere where I cannot afford to live as I have a house and husband and young son in Lincolnshire, our house is not worth very much in this part of the world.
Yes, not sure of how or why I would benifit from a nice quiet unit, I did four years in the Army, never one for a quiet life me hense wanting a career change at the old age of 38 lol.
I need to have a long think, It is certainly something I wish to do (turned it down with the RAF many years ago). As my age reflects I am not free and single (no complaints though) and have to consider all factors.
Thanks to you all.
Catherine
Yes, not sure of how or why I would benifit from a nice quiet unit, I did four years in the Army, never one for a quiet life me hense wanting a career change at the old age of 38 lol.
I need to have a long think, It is certainly something I wish to do (turned it down with the RAF many years ago). As my age reflects I am not free and single (no complaints though) and have to consider all factors.
Thanks to you all.
Catherine
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Eastern wiseguy. There was nothing patronising at all about my statement. The lady says she is 38 years old, so she is older than what I might suggest is the "preferred" age to start ATC training from scratch. Nothing "patronising", just a simple fact.
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Originally Posted by HEATHROW DIRECTOR
she is older than what I might suggest is the "preferred" age to start ATC training from scratch. Nothing "patronising", just a simple fact.
Also, perhaps I am being naive etc. but, by the "quieter" airports mentioned by HD, would those not be those categorised by NATS as being in a lower band? I thought those were at least nominally worked out by "business" of the aerodrome?
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HD ....You are patronising other units.
I believe that at 38 she will have a heck of a job ahead of her irrespective of which unit she would be posted to.
Good luck to her. I wouldn't like to be in her shoes.
I believe that at 38 she will have a heck of a job ahead of her irrespective of which unit she would be posted to.
Good luck to her. I wouldn't like to be in her shoes.
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<<Is that not an opinion?>>
It certainly is, derived from 30+ years of training controllers at home and abroad in 5 different ATC disciplines at both busy and quiet units.
It certainly is, derived from 30+ years of training controllers at home and abroad in 5 different ATC disciplines at both busy and quiet units.
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eastern wiseguy
HD is just stating the facts and not being patronising.
Age 38 is, in itself, no barrier to obtaining an ATC licence but I would ask you to supply the forum with details of any ATCO who has done a first validation at terminal control at such age.
The number of cadets who failed to validate at LATCC and were then shipped out to, and then finally validate at, less busy units would fill a fair sized book.
Cheers
P.S. ex CAA, NATS and TC (as it then was)
HD is just stating the facts and not being patronising.
Age 38 is, in itself, no barrier to obtaining an ATC licence but I would ask you to supply the forum with details of any ATCO who has done a first validation at terminal control at such age.
The number of cadets who failed to validate at LATCC and were then shipped out to, and then finally validate at, less busy units would fill a fair sized book.
Cheers
P.S. ex CAA, NATS and TC (as it then was)
Last edited by Vercingetorix; 12th Jan 2011 at 06:50.
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I have many years of experience in TC. We have had several older controllers from other units come to TC and have not validated. At 38 it will be an up hill struggle to validate, perhaps anywhere.
I very much agree with the comments of HD.
I very much agree with the comments of HD.
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Hi all, I am begining to get the impression that at 38 my brain cells start to decay and I not as intellegent as I was when younger. As I am recently finishing a physics degree with the OU I find I am much wiser and level headed than I was at 20. However, it has highlighted that there is a lot of prejudice out there towards of people my age and after a difficult decision(not based on my age I might add) that I am going to withdraw my application to NATS as I really cannot afford to relocate to the areas they have on offer. House prices in these areas vastly outweigh the house I own and cannot afford to rent while I wait to be vaidated (if that were to ever happen!!). Thank you all for you comments and wish you all well.
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That is patronising in the extreme.
It is nice to know that she will be able to get by at one of NATS quiet units.
THOSE were the names I was asking you for.I am sure that my fellow ATCO's around the country would love to know which category you believe they fit in to.
It is nice to know that she will be able to get by at one of NATS quiet units.
THOSE were the names I was asking you for.I am sure that my fellow ATCO's around the country would love to know which category you believe they fit in to.
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Electric-chick... You must be joking about age-related prejudice. All this nonsense started because I wanted you to be aware that starting in ATC can become difficult as one gets older. Some have backed me up...
If you went into the busiest control rooms around the UK you'd find 22-year old kids sitting next to grey-haired 55-year olds, all doing the same job safely, expertly and efficiently. Youngsters tend to be sharper, as in any activity, whilst the oldies have experience to rely on. Equally, you'll find ex-RAF officers and airmen, ex- and currently active pilots, geniuses with several degrees and cloth-heads like me with just two O levels - all doing the same job. When I started there were few ladies in the job but I suspect that there are almost equal numbers of men and women now.
I'd hate to think that you've given up because of what you have read on here.
I sincerely wish you luck with whatever 2nd career you pursue but please don't get the wrong idea about ATC; it's a fantastic profession with great cameraderie and, what was most important for me, loads of time at home with the family.
If you went into the busiest control rooms around the UK you'd find 22-year old kids sitting next to grey-haired 55-year olds, all doing the same job safely, expertly and efficiently. Youngsters tend to be sharper, as in any activity, whilst the oldies have experience to rely on. Equally, you'll find ex-RAF officers and airmen, ex- and currently active pilots, geniuses with several degrees and cloth-heads like me with just two O levels - all doing the same job. When I started there were few ladies in the job but I suspect that there are almost equal numbers of men and women now.
I'd hate to think that you've given up because of what you have read on here.
I sincerely wish you luck with whatever 2nd career you pursue but please don't get the wrong idea about ATC; it's a fantastic profession with great cameraderie and, what was most important for me, loads of time at home with the family.
Electric Chick
I'm breaking my self-imposed decision to only comment on nostalgia/where are they? now type treads - after all nobody wants to hear us retired BOFs going on and on... BUT
DON'T GIVE UP
Send off your application,do the medical,if offered do the interviews etc let fate decide whether or not you will pass them and start the college courses.
I think you will always regret it if you don't give it a go.
As my friend HD has explained it will be difficult,it is even for a fresh-faced 21 year old. I have heard many stories of older people who have been successful at realising their dream to be a pilot.
Your big problem will be coping with the location of the unit you are posted to - there are no NATS units near your home, and with the price of petrol commuting could break the bank. If your application is unsuccessful your husband could look at working overseas,I guess there will be opportunities for someone with his experience.
As far as quiet units are concerned,and having been retired over 10 years I can only guess which they are, the advantage they have over places like Heathrow and Swanwick is that there are periods when with light traffic levels the training officer is able to more easily discuss the various ways of solving each problem as it arises. If you are training as the departure controller at LL,for instance,the flow rate has to be maintained - you just can not allow the trainee to scratch their head and lose several movements per hour. The same applies with the Final Director,the spacing on final has to be correct.
At Heathrow lots of trainees were 'nearly there' but not quite. So most were posted to places like Cardiff, Birmingham,Belfast and validated successfully - some have later gone back to Heathrow and been OK.
Anyway Electric Chick - do it and best of luck.
Brian
DON'T GIVE UP
Send off your application,do the medical,if offered do the interviews etc let fate decide whether or not you will pass them and start the college courses.
I think you will always regret it if you don't give it a go.
As my friend HD has explained it will be difficult,it is even for a fresh-faced 21 year old. I have heard many stories of older people who have been successful at realising their dream to be a pilot.
Your big problem will be coping with the location of the unit you are posted to - there are no NATS units near your home, and with the price of petrol commuting could break the bank. If your application is unsuccessful your husband could look at working overseas,I guess there will be opportunities for someone with his experience.
As far as quiet units are concerned,and having been retired over 10 years I can only guess which they are, the advantage they have over places like Heathrow and Swanwick is that there are periods when with light traffic levels the training officer is able to more easily discuss the various ways of solving each problem as it arises. If you are training as the departure controller at LL,for instance,the flow rate has to be maintained - you just can not allow the trainee to scratch their head and lose several movements per hour. The same applies with the Final Director,the spacing on final has to be correct.
At Heathrow lots of trainees were 'nearly there' but not quite. So most were posted to places like Cardiff, Birmingham,Belfast and validated successfully - some have later gone back to Heathrow and been OK.
Anyway Electric Chick - do it and best of luck.
Brian
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He wasn't being patronising, you are just being ridiculously hyper-sensitive.
No that wasn't the point . The idea that posting to a "lesser" unit is an option is quite offensive to people who use more than one rating. The idea that a 38 year old trainee should lower their sights IS offensive (to her). However I wonder how much easier it is to validate at 42/43 from scratch in an environment where there is tower ,Lars,radar,ATSOCAS.
I am not sure WHICH units qualify as the better place for a mature student to cut their teeth.
Good luck Electo..whatever you choose.
Unlike HD I will now retire from this debate
No that wasn't the point . The idea that posting to a "lesser" unit is an option is quite offensive to people who use more than one rating. The idea that a 38 year old trainee should lower their sights IS offensive (to her). However I wonder how much easier it is to validate at 42/43 from scratch in an environment where there is tower ,Lars,radar,ATSOCAS.
I am not sure WHICH units qualify as the better place for a mature student to cut their teeth.
Good luck Electo..whatever you choose.
Unlike HD I will now retire from this debate
Last edited by eastern wiseguy; 12th Jan 2011 at 12:01.
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Eastern Wiaseguy
Now that is patronising.
HD mentioned 5 different ATC disciplines at both busy and quiet units.
My own tally is as follows:
Aerodrome Control
Approach Control
Approach Radar Control
Area Control
Area Radar control
OJTI
ATSI
ATC Examiner
Rating Examiner
Inspector of ATS
ICAO Safety Management Systems Training Course
European Academy for Aviation Safety (EAFAS) Quality Assessment Course JAR OPS 1
Slightly more than one rating being exercised.
We speak from both knowledge and experience.
Brian 48nav is on the money with sound advice.
Cheers
quite offensive to people who use more than one rating
HD mentioned 5 different ATC disciplines at both busy and quiet units.
My own tally is as follows:
Aerodrome Control
Approach Control
Approach Radar Control
Area Control
Area Radar control
OJTI
ATSI
ATC Examiner
Rating Examiner
Inspector of ATS
ICAO Safety Management Systems Training Course
European Academy for Aviation Safety (EAFAS) Quality Assessment Course JAR OPS 1
Slightly more than one rating being exercised.
We speak from both knowledge and experience.
Brian 48nav is on the money with sound advice.
Cheers