CTAF in the UK
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: southampton,hampshire,england
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One purpose of pprune is to constantly question and probe in the hope of inspiring debate. The thread started by addressing the Unicom idea. Rules and regulations form the backbone of daily ATC service delivery but, occassionally, a situation occurs which may need a non-standard solution.
Respected posters have mentioned the Scottish solution to an instrument letdown where there is no ATCO on duty.....I did a tour in H&I where there were even out-of-hours arrivals and departures with no-one on duty...and never a problem.
And the POINT: when controllers are faced with a unique challenge they must use all of their training and experience to arrive at a measured and calculated solution....and they must do that in seconds! Any controller using initiative and common sense resulting in a safe outcome should be supported and applauded and not condemned. The Manual of ATS recognises this.
Respected posters have mentioned the Scottish solution to an instrument letdown where there is no ATCO on duty.....I did a tour in H&I where there were even out-of-hours arrivals and departures with no-one on duty...and never a problem.
And the POINT: when controllers are faced with a unique challenge they must use all of their training and experience to arrive at a measured and calculated solution....and they must do that in seconds! Any controller using initiative and common sense resulting in a safe outcome should be supported and applauded and not condemned. The Manual of ATS recognises this.
Thread Starter
I'll just say that if it did, then the crews of the aircraft were monstrously irresponsible..
055166k, fully agree.
Now , I don't think anyone is really talking about DIY ATC in busy class "A" nor even Farnborough but I would suggest that a law change to allow CTAF in some situations would be a good thing. Good debate though hope it continues. Its beginning to look to me that places without radar or when radar it not available , particularly in Northern England or Scotland would be ideal candidates for removing the financial burden of always having to have ATC tower for public transport planes.
How much is spent on providing ATC at Dundee and could that cost be reduced by using CTAF?
bb
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Berkshire, UK
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bad bear. OK, I'll tell you a story. I once flew jump seat in a 747 into Heathrow. As we left the runway, ATC gave explicit instructions to take the first left turn on to another taxiway. The captain said "No, let's take the second left; it's much easier". I said: "How do you know that there isn't a broken light fitting at that intersesction?". Quick application of brakes and they took the first..... Pilots don't always know the full story.
At a major airfield I still think it would be potentially dangerous for large commercial aircraft to land if ATC was temporarily u/s. Question also arises as to how they would get anywhere near the airfield in the first place, but I don't think we'd better pursue that.
"There are days when the "books" have to be thrown away."
In around 36 years as a controller both at home and abroad I never once met a pilot who threw any books away. Maybe it was because I worked with professionals?
At a major airfield I still think it would be potentially dangerous for large commercial aircraft to land if ATC was temporarily u/s. Question also arises as to how they would get anywhere near the airfield in the first place, but I don't think we'd better pursue that.
"There are days when the "books" have to be thrown away."
In around 36 years as a controller both at home and abroad I never once met a pilot who threw any books away. Maybe it was because I worked with professionals?
Bad bear: if you're talking about carrying out an iap without ATC, you hgave to consider the following:
The airport operator would have to present a robust 'safety case' to the CAA, and it would need to be approved.
The airport operator would have to demonstrate 'duty of care' eg public transport aircraft lands, bursts a tyre and goes off the runway. Passengers are injured as they exit the aircraft.
Who calls the emergency services if the airport is unattended? Aircraft operator sues the airport authority claiming poor runway surface caused tyre damage.
How they get round this in places like the USA and Oz I don't know, but the UK CAA would never approve it.
The airport operator would have to present a robust 'safety case' to the CAA, and it would need to be approved.
The airport operator would have to demonstrate 'duty of care' eg public transport aircraft lands, bursts a tyre and goes off the runway. Passengers are injured as they exit the aircraft.
Who calls the emergency services if the airport is unattended? Aircraft operator sues the airport authority claiming poor runway surface caused tyre damage.
How they get round this in places like the USA and Oz I don't know, but the UK CAA would never approve it.
Thread Starter
chevvron, thanks for the contributions. Its great to get all views. If you still live in the Farnborough area it might be fun to meet up for a beer next time Im down that way.
Absolutely! Any airfield operator would have to do that if CTAF were introduced as an option by the CAA
I doubt that any airport would be "unattended" as someone has to meet/refuel/unload the aeroplane. If the firemen double as ramp workers they would be there to respond and would see for them selves that help was needed without someone telling them, simply one of the many details that other countries have covered before approving CTAF.
There is no suggestion of cutting any of the other services. Runway inspections and fire services remain, only ATC tower function is removed.
bb
The airport operator would have to present a robust 'safety case' to the CAA, and it would need to be approved.
Who calls the emergency services if the airport is unattended? Aircraft operator sues the airport authority claiming poor runway surface caused tyre damage.
There is no suggestion of cutting any of the other services. Runway inspections and fire services remain, only ATC tower function is removed.
bb
