SNOCLO
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: My views - Not my employer!
Posts: 1,031
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SNOCLO
Folks, I've yet to see a METAR that has originated from a UK airport that has had this runway state abbreviation on it.
Now in flight, when you are listening to the VOLMET when you are coming up close to the UK in conditions that we are currently experiencing, its kinda nice to find out early where is closed and where is open...
So when is it used in the UK?
Now in flight, when you are listening to the VOLMET when you are coming up close to the UK in conditions that we are currently experiencing, its kinda nice to find out early where is closed and where is open...
So when is it used in the UK?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: My views - Not my employer!
Posts: 1,031
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lovely...
Now, looking at the historical Edinburgh's Metars you can see that over the last few days, nil have been released with SNOCLO, where even my early morning radio bulletin on Radio 2 has revealed the airport has been closed many times.
Looking at Gatwick's they do indeed include SNOCLO, so full marks to them.
Just glad I'm off recovering from an op...
Now, looking at the historical Edinburgh's Metars you can see that over the last few days, nil have been released with SNOCLO, where even my early morning radio bulletin on Radio 2 has revealed the airport has been closed many times.
Looking at Gatwick's they do indeed include SNOCLO, so full marks to them.
Just glad I'm off recovering from an op...
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: My views - Not my employer!
Posts: 1,031
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I take it back..
This mornings EDI now includes...
This mornings EDI now includes...
SA 01/12/2010 08:50->
METAR EGPH 010850Z AUTO VRB03KT 9999NDV FZRA FEW007/// BKN010///
BKN015/// M02/M03 Q1021 SNOCLO=
SA 01/12/2010 08:20->
METAR EGPH 010820Z VRB03KT 9999 9000SE FEW007 SCT011 BKN046
M03/M04 Q1021 SNOCLO=
METAR EGPH 010850Z AUTO VRB03KT 9999NDV FZRA FEW007/// BKN010///
BKN015/// M02/M03 Q1021 SNOCLO=
SA 01/12/2010 08:20->
METAR EGPH 010820Z VRB03KT 9999 9000SE FEW007 SCT011 BKN046
M03/M04 Q1021 SNOCLO=
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: EU
Posts: 644
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Excuse me for splitting hairs, but I always believed SNOCLO meant closed due to snowclearing.
A runway is not closed due to snow; it is unusable because braking action or contamination is out of limits, but it is not "closed". If you want to land on b/a poor, it's all yours....
The runway can be closed otoh when there is a fleet of big yellow trucks with plows on it.
A runway is not closed due to snow; it is unusable because braking action or contamination is out of limits, but it is not "closed". If you want to land on b/a poor, it's all yours....
The runway can be closed otoh when there is a fleet of big yellow trucks with plows on it.
PPRuNe Bashaholic
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 1997
Location: The Peoples Alcoholic Republic of Jockistan
Posts: 1,442
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Some airport authorities seem reticent to admit they are actually closed.
ATC: Are you closed?
BAA: No, we're open.
ATC: So the runway is available?
BAA: No, it's not been cleared yet.
ATC: So you're closed then ?
BAA: No, it's just that nothing can land or depart. We're still open.
ATC: Are you closed?
BAA: No, we're open.
ATC: So the runway is available?
BAA: No, it's not been cleared yet.
ATC: So you're closed then ?
BAA: No, it's just that nothing can land or depart. We're still open.
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: That France
Posts: 251
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
<< The runway can be closed otoh when there is a fleet of big yellow trucks with plows on it.>>
Seems the phrase 'Land Over..' has gone the way of 'Land After....'
. No wonder runway utilisation isn't what it used to be.
Seems the phrase 'Land Over..' has gone the way of 'Land After....'
. No wonder runway utilisation isn't what it used to be.
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: home
Posts: 75
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
full marks to EGKK for being SNOCLO - how about they buy a couple of snowploughs and get their act together.
A few flakes of the white stuff and this country grinds to a halt, its embarrasing!!
A few flakes of the white stuff and this country grinds to a halt, its embarrasing!!
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: That France
Posts: 251
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
<<A few flakes of the white stuff and this country grinds to a halt, its embarrasing!!>>
Er....well, I'd beg to disagree; the capital investment to be geared up to have every road, side-road, alleyway, car-park, etc cleared within 6 hours would be unacceptably high. It's been - what? 36 hours? - since the real stuff fell, and unless you want to see your Council Tax doubling something has got to give.
Obviously, I'm not talking about airports now, but you DID say 'the whole country'. I remember the decision to remove the Snow Sodiums at the REAL London airport on the grounds that 'it'll never snow that much again'......
Er....well, I'd beg to disagree; the capital investment to be geared up to have every road, side-road, alleyway, car-park, etc cleared within 6 hours would be unacceptably high. It's been - what? 36 hours? - since the real stuff fell, and unless you want to see your Council Tax doubling something has got to give.
Obviously, I'm not talking about airports now, but you DID say 'the whole country'. I remember the decision to remove the Snow Sodiums at the REAL London airport on the grounds that 'it'll never snow that much again'......
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 196
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
full marks to EGKK for being SNOCLO - how about they buy a couple of snowploughs and get their act together.
A few flakes of the white stuff and this country grinds to a halt, its embarrasing!!
A few flakes of the white stuff and this country grinds to a halt, its embarrasing!!
Two more snow ploughs on top of the current fleet wouldn't make a great deal of difference. Gatwick has an extensive fleet of snow clearance vehicles, including sweepers, schorlings, ploughs, diggers and de-icers, not to mention the fleet of dozens (and I don't exaggerate, I suggest 50 is a conservative estimate) of contracted flat bed lorries and JCBs pulled in to move the drifts and piles which inevitably build during clearance and can impinge on the protected surfaces of the runway.
It's fun to whinge and think we know better, and that someone else is incompetent or lazy. I don't usually rise to it, but your comment is at best naive, and perhaps better described as ignorant and moronic.
A lot of people (hundreds certainly, thousands more likely) have worked incredibly hard over the past four days, not seen their families once, and put a lot of planning into action. Kudos all round for a job well done.
It's fair to say that there may be a misconception regarding the amount of snow that has fallen in Surrey, Kent and the Sussexes. I had heard one estimate from somebody who had observed both locations that Heathrow had received only approximately 10% of the snow that had fallen at Gatwick. Incredible considering the distance. 'Snow trains' was a phrase used by The Times, incredibly directed narrow weather systems, delivery the majority of the snow to relatively localised areas.
During the course of yesterday from around 18:00 to 03:00 this morning the temperature rose from -8 degrees centigrade to +4. You can check the METARs for that data. This has been an extraordinary cold snap.
As a unnecessarily childish parting shot, what's embarrassing is your inability to even spell the word.
Rant over.
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: frozen norff
Posts: 215
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Minesthechevy - UK airports were 'transfered' from council control sometime ago. The council tax doubling happened irrespective of local airports buying a snowplough or two 
...
...
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Global Village
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Someone correct me if I am wrong please!!
In countries where heavy snowfall is common, it is cost effective to invest heavily in snowclearing machinery. In countries where heavy snow is experienced maybe a couple of times a year, it isn't cost effective to spend hundreds of thousands of pounds on seldom used equipment.
However, some fools still thinkit should be spent. So who pays for it? Landing fees increase, ticket prices rise, passenger numbers fall and airlines reduce their fleet numbers leaving those people whining about being embarassed out of a job( but at least the runways are clear!)
In countries where heavy snowfall is common, it is cost effective to invest heavily in snowclearing machinery. In countries where heavy snow is experienced maybe a couple of times a year, it isn't cost effective to spend hundreds of thousands of pounds on seldom used equipment.
However, some fools still thinkit should be spent. So who pays for it? Landing fees increase, ticket prices rise, passenger numbers fall and airlines reduce their fleet numbers leaving those people whining about being embarassed out of a job( but at least the runways are clear!)
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: -
Posts: 508
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In fairness to EGKK, IIRC they can't use urea or similar for keeping runways clear of ice etc. due to the runoff into a watercourse in the immediate vicinity - contamination being a big 'no-no'.
Lets face it, when an airport is closed there is a fair chance the travelling public can't get either to/from the place anyway, so those inconvenienced are likely to be so whether the runway is clear or not.
PS Wanna keep moving in snow? Get some decent winter rubber on your wheels!
Lets face it, when an airport is closed there is a fair chance the travelling public can't get either to/from the place anyway, so those inconvenienced are likely to be so whether the runway is clear or not.
PS Wanna keep moving in snow? Get some decent winter rubber on your wheels!
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Toronto
Age: 57
Posts: 531
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So much for the BAA stating LHR was "fully operational".
From The Independent online:
British Airways grounded all its flights out of Heathrow until at least 5pm this afternoon, despite the airport's operator saying it is "fully operational".
A spokeswoman from the airline said: "The weather at Heathrow now is quite appalling."
"We knew that severe weather conditions were expected, so rather than asking passengers to travel down from Scotland, for example, just to have their flight cancelled, we think it's better to tell all our customers that flights are cancelled.
"We need to give our customers some certainty."
She said the airline regretted inconveniencing passengers, but insisted it was the correct decision.
"This costs British Airways a huge amount of money, so this is not a decision we take lightly," she said.
"There's a backlog from yesterday and that has an impact on today's customers.
"The main thing is we don't want customers turning up today to get stranded and not be able to get out by car or by plane. "
Winter blast brings Britain to a standstill - Home News, UK - The Independent
From The Independent online:
British Airways grounded all its flights out of Heathrow until at least 5pm this afternoon, despite the airport's operator saying it is "fully operational".
A spokeswoman from the airline said: "The weather at Heathrow now is quite appalling."
"We knew that severe weather conditions were expected, so rather than asking passengers to travel down from Scotland, for example, just to have their flight cancelled, we think it's better to tell all our customers that flights are cancelled.
"We need to give our customers some certainty."
She said the airline regretted inconveniencing passengers, but insisted it was the correct decision.
"This costs British Airways a huge amount of money, so this is not a decision we take lightly," she said.
"There's a backlog from yesterday and that has an impact on today's customers.
"The main thing is we don't want customers turning up today to get stranded and not be able to get out by car or by plane. "
Winter blast brings Britain to a standstill - Home News, UK - The Independent