UK Airspace closure
Joined: Nov 2006
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From: UK
How much is this costing NSL/NERL in terms of lost revenue?
Also could this be the perfect excuse for our present management (
) to shut the pension scheme!!!
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 162
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From: farfaraway
NATS
I am becoming increasingly irritated by the MEDIA referring to NATS as the National Air Traffic Services, are they not aware that as part of the great rebranding exercise NATS does not stand for anything anymore. I think somebody from corporate communications should let them know
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,924
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From: UK
Please stop telephoning Heathrow and asking to do touch and gos. The answer is no!
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 300
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From: Southampton
"I am becoming increasingly irritated by the MEDIA referring to NATS as the National Air Traffic Services, are they not aware that as part of the great rebranding exercise NATS does not stand for anything anymore. I think somebody from corporate communications should let them know"
Utterly off topic but doesn't this show what a complete waste of time and money the rebranding exercise was.
Utterly off topic but doesn't this show what a complete waste of time and money the rebranding exercise was.
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 8,266
Likes: 1
From: Berkshire, UK
<<I am becoming increasingly irritated by the MEDIA referring to NATS as the National Air Traffic Services, are they not aware that as part of the great rebranding exercise NATS does not stand for anything anymore. I think somebody from corporate communications should let them know>>
There are some exceptionally switched on, exceptionally professional operational controllers, ATC support staff and engineers in NATS. There are also some people sitting in offices who have little to do when they've finished hooking paper clips together so they come up with fantastic ideas like the above!
There are some exceptionally switched on, exceptionally professional operational controllers, ATC support staff and engineers in NATS. There are also some people sitting in offices who have little to do when they've finished hooking paper clips together so they come up with fantastic ideas like the above!
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 121
Likes: 1
From: somerset
I'm not expecting the media to fully understand the complex airspace structure but it might have been nice if they could stop saying that ' no flights are operating in and out of uk airspace'. Ok, i know that's true as far as commercial pax flights go, but plenty of other stuff has managed to come and go, after all the restriction is not from the CAA it is from NATS and therefore if one avoids NATS controlled airspace...
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 25
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From: UK
But what about the money?
NATS costs about 2m a day to operate. We are now into day three with no traffic and basically almost no revenue... thats 6m and counting
The men at the top are already worrying about what to do about the unexpected income shortfall, looks like another 10m in cost cuts will need to be on the way this year. At least its right at the beginning of the financial year and they have time to react.
Remember impact of 9/11 revenue reduction brought NATS to its knees financially, and that was just the trasnatlantic income. It won't take many more days of this to do the same thing.
Same problem in Germany, Holland, Norway etc etc.
Finnair are already talking publicly about staff lay offs, some commercial ANSP will be thinking the same way. Interesting times.
KT
The men at the top are already worrying about what to do about the unexpected income shortfall, looks like another 10m in cost cuts will need to be on the way this year. At least its right at the beginning of the financial year and they have time to react.
Remember impact of 9/11 revenue reduction brought NATS to its knees financially, and that was just the trasnatlantic income. It won't take many more days of this to do the same thing.
Same problem in Germany, Holland, Norway etc etc.
Finnair are already talking publicly about staff lay offs, some commercial ANSP will be thinking the same way. Interesting times.
KT
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 525
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From: 24/7 Hardcore Heaven
The falling ash could be replaced with falling £50 notes and NATS would still be able to find a way to persuade us that they were in deep poo financially and needed us to give up more of our pension and salary. This will be milked to the max I reckon.
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 182
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From: Saffron Walden, UK
It has been discussed earlier on in this thread but my query did relate to why ALL commercial air traffic in UK airspace has to be grounded in the wake of this volcanic eruption (or 'planes' as the media constantly refer them to as 
).
The focus is on jet turbine AIRCRAFT but there are of course a large proportion of Turbo Prop a/c in commercial service - ATR 42/ Dash 8/ Saab 340 etc and as these engines use a gas turbine to drive the propeller, I assume they are still subject to similar effects of Volcanic ash and are therefore not permitted to fly in such conditions?
).The focus is on jet turbine AIRCRAFT but there are of course a large proportion of Turbo Prop a/c in commercial service - ATR 42/ Dash 8/ Saab 340 etc and as these engines use a gas turbine to drive the propeller, I assume they are still subject to similar effects of Volcanic ash and are therefore not permitted to fly in such conditions?
Joined: May 2002
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From: Chilterns/Blighty
The thought crossed my mind that whilst the current impasse exists it would have been a great opportunity for charity, and a lifetimes ambition realised for many PPLs.
"Roll up, roll up 25 quid to put a LHR touch and go in your logbook!"
Or am I being super naive?
FW
"Roll up, roll up 25 quid to put a LHR touch and go in your logbook!"
Or am I being super naive?
FW
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 182
Likes: 0
From: Saffron Walden, UK
I think 'The National Air Travel Service' on SKY on Thursday has been the best so far.
Its a bit like the BBC saying 'We are now heading to NATS HQ in Fareham, KENT'..... Really? Thats a first- I was always led to believe Fareham was in Hampshire. Also none of them seem to be clear as to whether Mr NATS Head of Safety is being interviewed from outside the entrance of LACC Swanwick or the front door of CTC Whiteley (camera strategically positioned with the NATS logo in the background outside the main entrance). I assume the interviews are being conducted outside the latter, rather than the former.
Beady Eye
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,495
Likes: 1
From: UK
Also none of them seem to be clear as to whether Mr NATS Head of Safety is being interviewed from outside the entrance of LACC Swanwick or the front door of CTC Whiteley (camera strategically positioned with the NATS logo in the background outside the main entrance). I assume the interviews are being conducted outside the latter, rather than the former.
BD
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
From: UK
What about the money
NATS
See the link for details.
NATS earns about 2.1 m in revenue per day. Dont confuse operating costs with total costs. NATS Costs are about 1.84m per day (see report)
NATS Profit was 95m last year. The execs will be paid based on delivering to a bunch of metrics which will include profit targets. Every day of no revenue takes about 2.1m straight off the profit line.
NATS could go perhaps six weeks before annual loss is incurred, but NATS is a business and the profit goal will be paramount.
By Monday 10% of the profit due this year will be burnt. Without getting into NSL vs NERL and all that. But Assuming targets this year are similar to last.
More cost cuts on the way without doubt.
KT
See the link for details.
NATS earns about 2.1 m in revenue per day. Dont confuse operating costs with total costs. NATS Costs are about 1.84m per day (see report)
NATS Profit was 95m last year. The execs will be paid based on delivering to a bunch of metrics which will include profit targets. Every day of no revenue takes about 2.1m straight off the profit line.
NATS could go perhaps six weeks before annual loss is incurred, but NATS is a business and the profit goal will be paramount.
By Monday 10% of the profit due this year will be burnt. Without getting into NSL vs NERL and all that. But Assuming targets this year are similar to last.
More cost cuts on the way without doubt.
KT
Joined: Oct 2004
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 419
Likes: 39
From: California
To those who are having the same thoughts as the 5 people who did it during my short stint upstairs yesterday:
Please stop telephoning Heathrow and asking to do touch and gos. The answer is no!
Please stop telephoning Heathrow and asking to do touch and gos. The answer is no!