Non-NATS ATC Tower training

[kevpem]

Thanks everyone for your assistance and soothing words

I was with NATs doing an Area course before being chopped on a techincal failure during radar training. Interestingly, everyone else on the course over the age of 30 was chopped at the same time, whether this is indicative of poor performance due to age or NATs trying to get their money's worth I will never know.

I'll contact EGHH tower and have a chat with them, I feel my skills would be more appropriate to ADI so hope I can secure an ATCA position to build experience before going nuts with self-funding.

It's just not a good time to be looking for work during these pressing economic times, onwards and upwards!!

[slip and turn]

Very interesting history kevpem, are you saying that there's a real chance that NATS have finally discovered an essential TATCO performance measurement device that corrolates nicely with age?

Before you were chopped, you weren't asked to check out one of these, were you? I think it yields roughly what you'd expect a bit like the grandchildren's Wii that HD was talking about



Based on my experience, I'd say it's definitely uphill work to change blatantly muddled perceptions held by er.. well-meaning tosspot operators, but luckily they don't rule the roost everywhere in the industry.

Best of luck with your quest in the New Year.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

I looked back through S&T's other posts and found this enlightening snippet from him in response to a query about whether he was in aviation:

"Part-trained/studied, but not earning my living in aviation. "

I think that is enough for me to ignore any more of his nonsense.

[Loki]

Quite so. Well said.

[Tower Ranger]

I am afraid that we`ll have to bow to his expert knowledge in the "Tosspot" department though.
Good luck with your trolling in 2010 S'n'T, mind the roads!!

[kevpem]

So then, before we disappear down the cliched spiral of internet forum arguing and trolling, thank you to those that have provided some useful insight and tips.

I agree that age does play a part however a persons ability and willing can help overcome this.

Any other useful tips before I stop checking the thread?

[Tarq57]

Originally Posted by kevpem

Any other useful tips before I stop checking the thread?

Not at this stage, and probably somewhat out of place anyway, since I don't know the NATS system, but I do have a question or 2:
1) What was the nature of your last line of employment?
Personally I don't think 31 is too old per se, it really depends on the person, their learning style, the way they are used to thinking etc etc.
With some folk all the willingness in the world simply won't cut it if those aspects of the mental makeup required to be an ATCO are missing and can't be quickly learned.
With others, it's a different story.
I don't really want you leaving the thread (and a possible career path) despondent and discouraged because it turned into a stupid plonker fuelled debate about ageism.
Your age is against you, a bit. (See above, except for slipnturns posts.) Of itself, it may not preclude you. Depends on so many other factors.
2) Did they tell you in any detail the reason you were chopped? That might provide as many pointers as your age.

[bottom rung]

I know for a fact that SATCOs at some non-NATS units keep in touch with staff at the colleges. It is not unknown for the most promising of the students on (or just completed) their ADI course to be picked up by employers and either taken on or bonded and sponsored thru APP. With regard to your age, I would think that it shouldn't be an issue. A 31 year old who can pass the course at the college is a better bet than a 21 year old who is struggling.
To summarise, if finances permit, get yourself on the ADI course. If you do well, having shown some commitment by covering costs on that course, it would be reasonable to expect some response from employers. Quite a few non-NATS places have vacancies at the moment. PM me if you want more background info.

[ILS 119.5]

I have been reading this thread with interest. When I went through the NATS or CAA college in the 80's we had a few ex assisstants on our course who were in their early thirties who all passed and subsequently validated which proves to show that age is not a problem. However in subsequent years in was statitically proven that there was a higher failure rate in the older cadets hence the lowering of the upper age limit for cadets. At the start of an ATC career it is 10% experience and 90% ability and after 10 years its the other way round. As HD says and also from my experience ATCO's can validate at 60 and still maintain validations at busy units at that age which is due to experience, it would be hard to start a career in ATC at that age. However that, in my opinion, would not prevent someone at the age of 31 starting. But be aware the course is not easy and you have to be ready to lose your money if you fail which would be cruel for someone who is so keen.
I changed careers at the age of 35 to fly instead and found the ATPL far easier than the cadetship so maybe that could be something to consider. At the moment the aviation industry is suffering from the recession with training being cut globally so to fork out a load of cash and not get a job is very risky also you have to bear in mind that on first obtaining a student licence (after an ADI course) you must start live training within 6 months otherwise you will have to do an APC course (more money). I'm sure the independent colleges will take your money but it is not a guaranteed pass. Think about it wisely if you are confident then go for it, if not then don't bother as failure could affect the rest of your life. I hope this helps.
ILS 119.5