Pilot says, ready for turning...
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Where possible we attempt to provide CDA's They are compulsory for us at night. You will ALWAYS recieve a Range check PRIOR to the commencement of the final descent with the aim being that you commence your descent from 6000 feet and continue on the glidepath.
I say again that we do not delay you unneccesarily and you will only be given a period of level flight or extra track miles when required.
John Boeman...you use your judgement coupled with what you see on TCAS....please see my previous reply regarding the requirement of the tower. Any non standard R/T is unneccesary chit chat.
I say again that we do not delay you unneccesarily and you will only be given a period of level flight or extra track miles when required.
John Boeman...you use your judgement coupled with what you see on TCAS....please see my previous reply regarding the requirement of the tower. Any non standard R/T is unneccesary chit chat.
Eastern Wiseguy, your previous reply was what prompted me to post on this thread. Easily one of the most condescending posts I have seen in some time.
Even though I have a feeling it is a lost cause where you are concerned, I will try again. We operate into dozens of different European (mostly) airports each month. Some of these require CDA's. The majority do not. Nevertheless, traffic and everything else permitting I try, as I already said, and avoid flying the aircraft level at all times during an approach because, as we all know, that is when it is at its least fuel efficient and most noisy.
At most airports operating CDAs. we receive an estimate of track miles to run most of the time, not every time (obviously it would appear that I do not operate into yours). On the rare occasions I have used the "ready to turn any time" phrase, the response I got has even contained the word "sorry" more than once, believe it or not, suggesting that he/she had meant to turn us sooner.
The thing is EW, you are talking about what happens at your airport. Most of us pilots have to deal with more than several. If we are unaware of your airport's special procedures because it is not one we visit regularly, you have the choice of simply acknowledging such a transmission or if things were quiet you can choose to try the more human approach (we call it CRM) and say why you were delaying the turn. Instead it appears to irritate you that all pilots visiting the airport you work at don’t just do what they are told regardless. Sorry if I have you wrong, but that is the impression you give.
I will say again that if I can see no other conflicting traffic and a turn will not take me over a built up area and I can see there is not a queue of traffic waiting to take off on the landing runway etc etc then I will try and prompt a turn if we appear to be wastefully flying away from the airport. I repeat - it is only on the rare occasion that I do that (but it amounts to a few times when you consider that I am older than you!) I do not believe that is unnecessary chitchat but I have no doubt you will continue to disagree. So let’s agree to disagree.
(Oh, on the non standard R/T stuff, I bet even you have let an occasional “evening” or “bye” slip out during your career – but then again, maybe not.)
Even though I have a feeling it is a lost cause where you are concerned, I will try again. We operate into dozens of different European (mostly) airports each month. Some of these require CDA's. The majority do not. Nevertheless, traffic and everything else permitting I try, as I already said, and avoid flying the aircraft level at all times during an approach because, as we all know, that is when it is at its least fuel efficient and most noisy.
At most airports operating CDAs. we receive an estimate of track miles to run most of the time, not every time (obviously it would appear that I do not operate into yours). On the rare occasions I have used the "ready to turn any time" phrase, the response I got has even contained the word "sorry" more than once, believe it or not, suggesting that he/she had meant to turn us sooner.
The thing is EW, you are talking about what happens at your airport. Most of us pilots have to deal with more than several. If we are unaware of your airport's special procedures because it is not one we visit regularly, you have the choice of simply acknowledging such a transmission or if things were quiet you can choose to try the more human approach (we call it CRM) and say why you were delaying the turn. Instead it appears to irritate you that all pilots visiting the airport you work at don’t just do what they are told regardless. Sorry if I have you wrong, but that is the impression you give.
I will say again that if I can see no other conflicting traffic and a turn will not take me over a built up area and I can see there is not a queue of traffic waiting to take off on the landing runway etc etc then I will try and prompt a turn if we appear to be wastefully flying away from the airport. I repeat - it is only on the rare occasion that I do that (but it amounts to a few times when you consider that I am older than you!) I do not believe that is unnecessary chitchat but I have no doubt you will continue to disagree. So let’s agree to disagree.
(Oh, on the non standard R/T stuff, I bet even you have let an occasional “evening” or “bye” slip out during your career – but then again, maybe not.)
Last edited by John Boeman; 13th Dec 2009 at 23:12. Reason: Spelling
nice one John Boeman.
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John Boeman,
Well it is non standard R/T coming at a critical time.As I said before with the Dutch Airline,that their call for ready to turn in is often way too early.If I did as they asked they would have a non stabilised approach,intercepting above the glide.
I have had crossed transmissions with aircraft saying that they are ready for turn,and at the same time I'm calling them to turn them on base.
That takes time to sort out,and it leads to a little extra distance being covered downwind.
It seems to me that pilots say this at airports they think are quiet.A lot of the time they have got the quiet bit really wrong.It would be interesting if this phrase is heard much at Heathrow.
I don't say''evening'' or ''bye'' either.
Well it is non standard R/T coming at a critical time.As I said before with the Dutch Airline,that their call for ready to turn in is often way too early.If I did as they asked they would have a non stabilised approach,intercepting above the glide.
I have had crossed transmissions with aircraft saying that they are ready for turn,and at the same time I'm calling them to turn them on base.
That takes time to sort out,and it leads to a little extra distance being covered downwind.It seems to me that pilots say this at airports they think are quiet.A lot of the time they have got the quiet bit really wrong.It would be interesting if this phrase is heard much at Heathrow.
I don't say''evening'' or ''bye'' either.
No, throw a dyce, it is not coming at a critical time.
I thought I made it clear that I had taken everything I possibly could into account prior to using the phrase on the FEW occasions that I have done. That is what the etc, etc was meant to imply. On those occasions there has been no other traffic in the pattern (it was the middle of the night) and even on the occasion that I crossed with the controller he only had to repeat his brief call.
Look, I think we all agree that it would be a prattish thing to do in other than a quiet airport environment. And I don’t suppose the phrase is heard much at MAN, FRA, AMS, CDG, MAD or JFK either so not sure what has that got to do with it.
However, having said all of that, I think I have digressed somewhat from what was being asked at the beginning of this thread.
Posts Nos.2, 6, 7 & 8 already had the questions answered accurately IMHO.
I made the mistake of allowing myself to be irritated by post No.17. I shouldn’t have. I know it was not written by a troll but it sure as heck could have been.
Can I just say that like everyone else I constantly appreciate the cheerful and professional service given to us by the vast majority of the controllers we are lucky enough to have looking after us on this island. For the years of my career that I was based in LGW I recall that for the majority of our approaches, once below 7000’ one hardly had to move the thrust levers from idle before finals, the vectors and descent clearances were that timely.
Oh, and an “evening” and a “bye” was managed most of the time as well.
(It’s easy to please some of us you know.)
I thought I made it clear that I had taken everything I possibly could into account prior to using the phrase on the FEW occasions that I have done. That is what the etc, etc was meant to imply. On those occasions there has been no other traffic in the pattern (it was the middle of the night) and even on the occasion that I crossed with the controller he only had to repeat his brief call.
Look, I think we all agree that it would be a prattish thing to do in other than a quiet airport environment. And I don’t suppose the phrase is heard much at MAN, FRA, AMS, CDG, MAD or JFK either so not sure what has that got to do with it.
However, having said all of that, I think I have digressed somewhat from what was being asked at the beginning of this thread.
Posts Nos.2, 6, 7 & 8 already had the questions answered accurately IMHO.
I made the mistake of allowing myself to be irritated by post No.17. I shouldn’t have. I know it was not written by a troll but it sure as heck could have been.
Can I just say that like everyone else I constantly appreciate the cheerful and professional service given to us by the vast majority of the controllers we are lucky enough to have looking after us on this island. For the years of my career that I was based in LGW I recall that for the majority of our approaches, once below 7000’ one hardly had to move the thrust levers from idle before finals, the vectors and descent clearances were that timely.
Oh, and an “evening” and a “bye” was managed most of the time as well.
(It’s easy to please some of us you know.)
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John Boeman,
Well unless I've been missing something for the last few decades,the timing of turns for base,and final approach are the 2 most critical in Approach Radar.In the same way as you know what your aircraft is doing,I know what the minimum distance I can vector aircraft on final,24 hours a day.
Well unless I've been missing something for the last few decades,the timing of turns for base,and final approach are the 2 most critical in Approach Radar.In the same way as you know what your aircraft is doing,I know what the minimum distance I can vector aircraft on final,24 hours a day.
"I know what the minimum distance I can vector aircraft on final,24 hours a day."
throw a dyce, no one any where here has even intimated that you didn't.
Can't help feeling that some of us here are talking at cross purposes and it would all be easily clarified with a face to face chat if only we could!
The "cringer" on the otherhand,
throw a dyce, no one any where here has even intimated that you didn't.
Can't help feeling that some of us here are talking at cross purposes and it would all be easily clarified with a face to face chat if only we could!
The "cringer" on the otherhand,
The safest place for an aeroplane is on someone else's frequency - oops, delete that... - on the gound. Therefore if a pilot asks for an early base or short final & I can do it, it gets my vote everytime. But ,hey, what do I know - I'm an ATC Dinosaur - only 121 cycles till retirement 
