Why do Heathrow Director expect us to announce aircraft type on first call?
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Why do Heathrow Director expect us to announce aircraft type on first call?
Can't they just look at the FPL, like every other controller does?
Or are they too busy to look it up?
And are they really busier than us?
And if it makes their job easier, why don't controllers at all busy airports expect the same help?
Or are they too busy to look it up?
And are they really busier than us?
And if it makes their job easier, why don't controllers at all busy airports expect the same help?
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CirrusF,
You'd be surprised at how many times the aircraft type on the flight plan is incorrect!
I'm sure you're aware we ask for the same prior to departure with Heathrow Delivery. How do other airports manage?....I don't know.
You'd be surprised at how many times the aircraft type on the flight plan is incorrect!
I'm sure you're aware we ask for the same prior to departure with Heathrow Delivery. How do other airports manage?....I don't know.
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Every airfield that I have worked at requires pilots to report aircraft type on first contact with radar and when obtaining departure clearance, it usually says to do that on the ATIS
louby
louby
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Every airfield that I have worked at requires pilots to report aircraft type on first contact with radar and when obtaining departure clearance, it usually says to do that on the ATIS
I can imagine that the info might occasionally have been wrong when operators used RPLs - but even so was it ever so unreliable that this caused major problems?
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Primarily for wake vortex reasons, for conditional crossing clearances (after the landing <insert a/c type here> cross runway 27L) and so that the rescue and fire services know what they're heading for in the event of an incident (the a/c type is passed to them as well should the crash alarm need to be pushed).
Maybe other airports are just happy to take their chances that the data they have is correct, experience on a daily basis shows it isn't always so. Here's hoping they don't stuff you up the arse of something on the approach thinking it's smaller than it actually is... how's your unusual attitude recovery skills?
For a couple of seconds worth of r/t the cost in time is worth paying.
Maybe other airports are just happy to take their chances that the data they have is correct, experience on a daily basis shows it isn't always so. Here's hoping they don't stuff you up the arse of something on the approach thinking it's smaller than it actually is... how's your unusual attitude recovery skills?
For a couple of seconds worth of r/t the cost in time is worth paying.
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We do it at the Ice Station.
If you're a Jetstream 41 but your strip says that you're a Saab 2000 and we don't double check and stick you 4 miles behind a 737 and then you have an incident, it's our necks that are on the chopping block!
If you're a Jetstream 41 but your strip says that you're a Saab 2000 and we don't double check and stick you 4 miles behind a 737 and then you have an incident, it's our necks that are on the chopping block!
PPRuNe Bashaholic
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We could always take the requirement out and then fine every captain and flight deck crew whose flight plan is wrong. Might help pay for our pensions !!
Seriously though, it's there to remove an occasional risk which could result in a nasty incident or accident, as explained by those above. If you don't have the capacity to report your type due to cockpit workload issues, then maybe aviation is not for you ?
Seriously though, it's there to remove an occasional risk which could result in a nasty incident or accident, as explained by those above. If you don't have the capacity to report your type due to cockpit workload issues, then maybe aviation is not for you ?
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LHR has had a fair number of go arounds because ATC didn't appreciate the extra speed that Ground speed mini can add, particularily to a heavy 340-600 when you revert to managed speed on a windy day. This call has helped them in adjusting the spacing so I hear.
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The procedure is in place to save your ass from ending up upside down in the middle of Hounslow old chap. If it pisses you off that much, maybe you should try to avoid flying into Heathrow until you're able to deal with the massive increase in workload that reporting your aircraft type entails.
Jesus wept.
Jesus wept.
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Who else asks for it? Heathrow is the only place I've been to that expects the info on first call
In addition to wake vortex, we check the a/c type so that there is no confusion when you are handed off to tower. If there is any type of emergency, they will be able to tell the fire service the a/c type. They may be issuing a conditional line up clearance against your a/c...rather beneficial to know then what a/c you are flying wouldnt you say? Stand allocation? I could go on....
Last edited by mr.777; 8th Sep 2009 at 09:34.
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And a polite reminder that its HEATHROW DIRECTOR who should be told on first contact and not LONDON! There is no point telling me what weather information you have either, I have no idea if that is correct or not.
It is quite amazing how many plans are filed with incorrect types. It doesn't help that the Paris computer doesn't currently have all the types and variations stored in it so London have been checking many of them. It makes a difference to us as an A340-600 climbs far better than an A340-300 so we can plan for that.
Bring on full Mode S and all the other systems that means we will no longer need to do all this............
It is quite amazing how many plans are filed with incorrect types. It doesn't help that the Paris computer doesn't currently have all the types and variations stored in it so London have been checking many of them. It makes a difference to us as an A340-600 climbs far better than an A340-300 so we can plan for that.
Bring on full Mode S and all the other systems that means we will no longer need to do all this............
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Jeez, calm down guys, he only asked a question. No need to go off on one calling him a cretin or claiming that 'Jesus wept'!
I don't have a 772 type rating, but I'm sure many of my questions to the last 772 crew I met might have seemed pretty simple to them.
I don't have a 772 type rating, but I'm sure many of my questions to the last 772 crew I met might have seemed pretty simple to them.
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Is the confusion not because Heathrow Director is the first Heathrow frequency where at most airports you speak to radar or approach initially and the director is the frequency you call with callsign only.
eg Manchester Radar 118.575, Manchester Director 121.350.
For some reason both of the equivalent frequencies at heathrow are called director.
Confused me the first time anyway.
eg Manchester Radar 118.575, Manchester Director 121.350.
For some reason both of the equivalent frequencies at heathrow are called director.
Confused me the first time anyway.
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Here's hoping they don't stuff you up the arse of something on the approach thinking it's smaller than it actually is... how's your unusual attitude recovery skills?
The procedure is in place to save your ass from ending up upside down in the middle of Hounslow old chap. If it pisses you off that much, maybe you should try to avoid flying into Heathrow until you're able to deal with the massive increase in workload that reporting your aircraft type entails.
Another thing that eats up radio time is `When established on localiser 27 left decend with the glidepath`
Why not just 'cleared ILS 27 left'?
Why not just 'cleared ILS 27 left'?
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And a polite reminder that its HEATHROW DIRECTOR who should be told on first contact and not LONDON! There is no point telling me what weather information you have either, I have no idea if that is correct or not.
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Having flown single pilot/single Nav aircraft, with no nice shiny glass cockpit or modern landing aids in crappy weather to moving runways, I'd say that in a multi crew modern airliner environment that the answer to your question
is most likely a resounding 'yes' and that applies to the TMA controllers as well.
And are they really busier than us?