Air Traffic Control Assistants
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Air Traffic Control Assistants
We were told today that a number of Air traffic units around the country were cutting back on assistants is this information correct??
We were also informaed today all the assistants when our air traffic move to there new centre there will be no requirment for any assistants at all.
Is this good for the controllers??
The reason for cutting back on the assistants is due to the new automated equipments going in including electronic flight progress strips is all this asking for trouble??
So what next?? No controllers and all the aircraft do there own air traffic.
After all a good assistant can be worth they wait in gold when things are busy and a less than half there salary.
So could we have been sold down the air waves??
We were also informaed today all the assistants when our air traffic move to there new centre there will be no requirment for any assistants at all.
Is this good for the controllers??
The reason for cutting back on the assistants is due to the new automated equipments going in including electronic flight progress strips is all this asking for trouble??
So what next?? No controllers and all the aircraft do there own air traffic.
After all a good assistant can be worth they wait in gold when things are busy and a less than half there salary.
So could we have been sold down the air waves??
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Unfortunately, new automated equipment does not answer the telephone, or look out of the window, or know when it's all going 'pear-shaped'.
Don't worry though, with the money saved, ANSPs will have the finances to employ lots of HR/HF bods and a plethora of environmental 'managers'.
Don't worry though, with the money saved, ANSPs will have the finances to employ lots of HR/HF bods and a plethora of environmental 'managers'.
Last edited by ZOOKER; 3rd Aug 2009 at 17:19.
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GBALU53...Who are "we"?
It is no secret that the assistant grade is becoming less relevant or viable. (Cue injured sensibilities about how they saved various backsides.) Unfortunately the world we live in now requires EVERYONE to contribute to the collective profit. ATSA's earning top of the scale for a diminishing amount of work just aren't part of the master plan.
p.s your spelling is dreadful.
It is no secret that the assistant grade is becoming less relevant or viable. (Cue injured sensibilities about how they saved various backsides.) Unfortunately the world we live in now requires EVERYONE to contribute to the collective profit. ATSA's earning top of the scale for a diminishing amount of work just aren't part of the master plan.
p.s your spelling is dreadful.
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Hmm...
I think UK Met Office Assistant Scientific Officers might disagree with you on that.
Er, sorry, I forgot. 'MULTI-TASKING'!
Doing several jobs badly at the expense of doing one job properly.
I think UK Met Office Assistant Scientific Officers might disagree with you on that.
Er, sorry, I forgot. 'MULTI-TASKING'!
Doing several jobs badly at the expense of doing one job properly.
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We were also informaed today all the assistants when our air traffic move to there new centre there will be no requirment for any assistants at all.
ATSAs are moving "up North" [not all, admittedly]...OOI, where are you stationed?
Last edited by chiglet; 4th Aug 2009 at 00:06. Reason: syntax
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Interesting comments about the lack of work coming from the ATSA's. At my unit they are happy to take on the jobs that the ATCO's don't want to do.
If the company gets rid of them, who will take on all the work they currently do. Very few ATCO's are prepared to do it unless they are paid more, well thats what they keep saying.
If the company gets rid of them, who will take on all the work they currently do. Very few ATCO's are prepared to do it unless they are paid more, well thats what they keep saying.
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NSL's goal is to rid themselves of the ATSA grade.
They fully expect the ATCO's to bend over and carry out old ATSA duties, Met being one, as certain aerodromes doon sooth do this anyway. They are trying to bring this in slowly by using the old 'contingency' ploy. We all know if we do this then it will become normal OPS and we will be sold down the river by the Union. The only reason I believe that we are not doing these duties as a matter of course now is that we (the union) have not been offered enough money to carry out these duties. However you can bet that when proposed it will be put to the vote and seeing as it only affects NSL then the majority of the union (NERL) will take the extra % on offer as it doesn't affect them.
From my point of view money isn't the issue, I would sooner have an assistant and for instance object to having to undertake 1/2 hourly met obs on a night shift whilst on a break.
They fully expect the ATCO's to bend over and carry out old ATSA duties, Met being one, as certain aerodromes doon sooth do this anyway. They are trying to bring this in slowly by using the old 'contingency' ploy. We all know if we do this then it will become normal OPS and we will be sold down the river by the Union. The only reason I believe that we are not doing these duties as a matter of course now is that we (the union) have not been offered enough money to carry out these duties. However you can bet that when proposed it will be put to the vote and seeing as it only affects NSL then the majority of the union (NERL) will take the extra % on offer as it doesn't affect them.
From my point of view money isn't the issue, I would sooner have an assistant and for instance object to having to undertake 1/2 hourly met obs on a night shift whilst on a break.
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I am sure that I am being old fashioned here in this brave new world of nats,but isnt there another view that atcos should refuse that extra few pounds to save the jobs of colleagues who have families, mortgages, school fees etc to pay. I consider it reprehensible that the unions are negotiating colleagues livelihoods away in such a cavalier manner
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Controllers Views
What are controllers views, can a unit like this one as being down can a unit operate without and assistance be it an ATCA or ATSA??
A quote from a NATS colleague ( A good assistant can be worth there wait in gold when things get very busy)
A number of units handle differant types of movements most NATS or nearly all handle very limited light and VFR aircraft. Now a days with restrictions executive jets have been known to go VFR, working London Information yesterday a Executive Jet was crossing the Channel Low level, all be it these types of flights are at a reduced speed burning lots of fuel but they happen for a number of reason possible due over weight for landing so you burn fuel and need to fly low level.
The unit concerned is it an ATSU??? if so are they not required to proved some flight planning facility??, if so should they not assist with flight plans as and when required??
Last question is automation one hundered percent?? as I understand that is why the ATCAs are being fassed out.
A quote from a NATS colleague ( A good assistant can be worth there wait in gold when things get very busy)
A number of units handle differant types of movements most NATS or nearly all handle very limited light and VFR aircraft. Now a days with restrictions executive jets have been known to go VFR, working London Information yesterday a Executive Jet was crossing the Channel Low level, all be it these types of flights are at a reduced speed burning lots of fuel but they happen for a number of reason possible due over weight for landing so you burn fuel and need to fly low level.
The unit concerned is it an ATSU??? if so are they not required to proved some flight planning facility??, if so should they not assist with flight plans as and when required??
Last question is automation one hundered percent?? as I understand that is why the ATCAs are being fassed out.
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<<What are controllers views, can a unit like this one as being down can a unit operate without and assistance be it an ATCA or ATSA??>>
Very sorry but I cannot understand this. "Can a unit like this one as being down can a unit...." What does that mean, please?
<<A quote from a NATS colleague (A good assistant can be worth there wait in gold when things get very busy)>>
I think you mean "worth their weight in gold"? The ATCAs I worked with in NATS were worth their weight in gold ALL the time, not just when it was busy and I held them all in very high regard.
Problem is that technology is taking over many tasks so humans are not needed in such numbers. When I started at Heathrow the Approach Room had 8 operational positions for ATCOs. I believe at Swanwick they now get away with 3 or 4 and shift almost twice the amount of traffic.
Very sorry but I cannot understand this. "Can a unit like this one as being down can a unit...." What does that mean, please?
<<A quote from a NATS colleague (A good assistant can be worth there wait in gold when things get very busy)>>
I think you mean "worth their weight in gold"? The ATCAs I worked with in NATS were worth their weight in gold ALL the time, not just when it was busy and I held them all in very high regard.
Problem is that technology is taking over many tasks so humans are not needed in such numbers. When I started at Heathrow the Approach Room had 8 operational positions for ATCOs. I believe at Swanwick they now get away with 3 or 4 and shift almost twice the amount of traffic.
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Wow it's like the Luddites all over again! 
It is the job of TUs to try to protect jobs... but they can only do so if they have valid grounds. Wanting to ignore progress and do things "the old way" in order to keep people in jobs is not valid grounds.
Change should always be challenged to make sure it actually is better - generally it is!
(he replied via a touch-screen, multi-media handset whilst waiting in line at the sandwich shop........ bring back typing pools!! )
It is the job of TUs to try to protect jobs... but they can only do so if they have valid grounds. Wanting to ignore progress and do things "the old way" in order to keep people in jobs is not valid grounds.
Change should always be challenged to make sure it actually is better - generally it is!
(he replied via a touch-screen, multi-media handset whilst waiting in line at the sandwich shop........ bring back typing pools!!
)
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So, Me Me,
You're in a queue. Why, is the sandwich shop understaffed? Why is that?
Why are you in a sandwich shop anyway? Is it because you don't have time to make your own sandwiches due to pressure of work? Love that "Meal Deal"!
Why not go to a restaurant for lunch? Ah, not enough time, or, TU's have negotiated away your workplace staff restaurant.- A Shame.
Anyway why bother going? It will only be full of loud-mouthed, networking nutters using the 'latest technology' to say "Hi, I'm in the restaurant at the moment, if you can't pickup, just drop me an email and I'll get back to you ASAP"
Check out the dumbed-down dross on the TV channels, check out the music scene and then, if it's safe to do so, go for a stroll around the litter and vomit-strewn boulevards of your local 'clone town'.
I'm sure you'll agree, change is generally for the better!
You're in a queue. Why, is the sandwich shop understaffed? Why is that?
Why are you in a sandwich shop anyway? Is it because you don't have time to make your own sandwiches due to pressure of work? Love that "Meal Deal"!
Why not go to a restaurant for lunch? Ah, not enough time, or, TU's have negotiated away your workplace staff restaurant.- A Shame.
Anyway why bother going? It will only be full of loud-mouthed, networking nutters using the 'latest technology' to say "Hi, I'm in the restaurant at the moment, if you can't pickup, just drop me an email and I'll get back to you ASAP"
Check out the dumbed-down dross on the TV channels, check out the music scene and then, if it's safe to do so, go for a stroll around the litter and vomit-strewn boulevards of your local 'clone town'.
I'm sure you'll agree, change is generally for the better!
Last edited by ZOOKER; 5th Aug 2009 at 17:21.