Procedural control
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Berkshire, UK
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Wow, so Colerne is still operational.. I had my first flight there as an Air Training Corps Erk in 1957 in an Avro Anson. I recall visiting ATC where we saw an aged WO staring at a huge dial with a moving needle - he was probably doing a QGH, some 52 years ago!
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Down South
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Procedural Control - The Approach Procedural perspective
Whilst I appreciate most of you guys are talking about Area Procedural Control, Approach Procedural Control is very much alive and well at a number of units in that dark ether known as 'Outside Controlled Airspace' and even inside CAS you still need to know your procedural separations for radar failure eventuallities.
It's much more intuitive and instinctive than pure radar and I really enjoyed my time doing it.
It's much more intuitive and instinctive than pure radar and I really enjoyed my time doing it.
Join Date: Sep 2005
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Yes indeed... I've worked at various procedural units in Class G for the past twenty years; there are still plenty about. Each unit I have validated at has its own idiosyncrasies when it comes to the procedural setup. Haven't done a QGH since 1994 though....
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Live in Taupiri, Waikato, work in the big smoke, New Zealand
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You know if you stick a finger in one ear, close one eye, and hum you can tell which engine is shut down in an asymetric flight!!!
ADC combined with Procedural Approach is the most fulfilling ATC job around!! Mind you I haven't had the "pleasure" of radar...but then who wants to sit in a little dark room full of ATCOs and TV screens!!
ADC combined with Procedural Approach is the most fulfilling ATC job around!! Mind you I haven't had the "pleasure" of radar...but then who wants to sit in a little dark room full of ATCOs and TV screens!!
Last edited by slackie; 16th Feb 2009 at 05:33. Reason: speling
Join Date: Aug 2003
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I can remember sitting in a hotel bar not so long ago with a group of APP trainees who were all experienced APS controllers, struggling desperately to help them understand Procedural Control! They had all come from a radar only background and could not, for all the tea in china, get their heads around this totally alien idea that aircraft could be separated using bearings, distances and estimates! Even after explaining the "1-in-60" rule, they still could not accept what they were being told!
More than just an ATCO
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Up someone's nose
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"Engines overhead. Fire the mortar."
Even after explaining the "1-in-60" rule
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Poland
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I don`t know if it suprise you, but here in Poland, we still have some airports with procedural approach control. The biggest one is Wroclaw with 35k movements per year. They are doing that without ground, delivery or director - only one ATCO with one assistant. Impressive, isn`t it?
Join Date: Feb 2009
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procedural control !!!!
you can experience live procedural control and air traffic controllers in trabzon city of turkey if you have ever get a chance to go to there.
good luck
good luck
Join Date: Sep 2007
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VC-10 VS Canberra
I was told the following story about procedural control that, allegedly, occurred in Victoria in the late 60’s/early 70’s.
Scenario: a RAAF Canberra out of Laverton, near Melbourne, bound for Edinburgh in South Australia, on climb to F390 or thereabouts, callsign HJR. Opposite direction a BOAC VC-10 requesting descent into Essendon in Melbourne, callsign Speedbird 1615A (or something similar). Aircraft are limited vertically 2000’ apart while the controller works out the passing time, relays it to the aircraft and asks them to report passing one another.
The captain of the VC-10, according to my source, had a very plummy accent and the pilot of the Canberra a stutter. Apparently the HJ prefix on the Canberra was a standard arrangement for the Aircraft Research and Development Unit of the RAAF, with the last letter being the first initial of the pilot’s name. In this case a bloke by the name of Ridgeway, who later went on to become an Air Vice-Marshal.
Anyway, the controller’s estimate for passing is approaching, so he asks HJR if he has the VC-10 in sight:
“HJR ne-ne-ne-ne negative” – another 30 seconds pass - “HJR have you got the VC-10 sighted yet?’
“HJR ne-ne-ne-ne-negative”
“Speedbird, can you see the Canberra”
“Ah, Speedbird 1615A, we have him now, our 11 o’clock, five miles” – as I said, with an apparently plummy accent.
“HJR, have you got the VC-10 now?”
“Ne-ne-ne-ne-negative.”
“Ah, Speedbird 1615A, were abeam now, our 9 o’clock, three miles.”
“HJW, confirm you have the VC-10 now.”
“Ne-ne-ne-ne-negative”
Speedbird: “Good God man you must be blind.”
HJR: “I’d rather be bl-bl-blind than a fa-fa-f***ing Pom.”
Scenario: a RAAF Canberra out of Laverton, near Melbourne, bound for Edinburgh in South Australia, on climb to F390 or thereabouts, callsign HJR. Opposite direction a BOAC VC-10 requesting descent into Essendon in Melbourne, callsign Speedbird 1615A (or something similar). Aircraft are limited vertically 2000’ apart while the controller works out the passing time, relays it to the aircraft and asks them to report passing one another.
The captain of the VC-10, according to my source, had a very plummy accent and the pilot of the Canberra a stutter. Apparently the HJ prefix on the Canberra was a standard arrangement for the Aircraft Research and Development Unit of the RAAF, with the last letter being the first initial of the pilot’s name. In this case a bloke by the name of Ridgeway, who later went on to become an Air Vice-Marshal.
Anyway, the controller’s estimate for passing is approaching, so he asks HJR if he has the VC-10 in sight:
“HJR ne-ne-ne-ne negative” – another 30 seconds pass - “HJR have you got the VC-10 sighted yet?’
“HJR ne-ne-ne-ne-negative”
“Speedbird, can you see the Canberra”
“Ah, Speedbird 1615A, we have him now, our 11 o’clock, five miles” – as I said, with an apparently plummy accent.
“HJR, have you got the VC-10 now?”
“Ne-ne-ne-ne-negative.”
“Ah, Speedbird 1615A, were abeam now, our 9 o’clock, three miles.”
“HJW, confirm you have the VC-10 now.”
“Ne-ne-ne-ne-negative”
Speedbird: “Good God man you must be blind.”
HJR: “I’d rather be bl-bl-blind than a fa-fa-f***ing Pom.”
