What happens within NATS after the pension results are in??
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RS
Mr Barron has openly stated that he believes ATCOs are overpaid by about 20% (I think that's the figure he stated).
Furthermore, about 14 months ago he made a very disparaging set of remarks about ATCOs during a speech he made to a bunch of Private Flyers. The transcript of which was obtainable at the time.
That's by the by though. He can think what he wants... He doesn't really know what ATCOs, or ATSAs or ATCEs do, nor the support staff at CTC, though is probably more in tune with them.
He knows in principle, but he has never actually shadowed them properly for any length of time, and to be fair, he doesn't need to, he is intetrested in NATS as a business, he doesn't really care about what the workforce do. As far as he or any head of a major business is concerned, the product could be anything, the principle of running the business remains the same - cut costs, increase productivity to be very simplistic about it.
Yes he attends ANSP meetings in Europe etc, but he does that as a business man with a view to building partnerships etc- he doesn't understand the nitty gritty of our business and the day he tries to interfere with it is the day he should leave - that's why he has amanagement team (several layers of in fact).
landedoutagain
The possibility of raising the cap to RPI+1% is feasible I suppose. However we have been told that it is the actuaries that insist on a 15 year review period as that is what is needed for them to work their figures. If ther review period is reduced, then it indicates to me that someone is telling porkies.
I fully understand why management would claim they can only afford RPI+0.5%, because it is their job to try to give away as little as possible. The 15 year period however is totaly different.
Anyways, its the closing of the fund to newcomers that is the biggest issue that people seem to have papered over. Once that happens, if the vote is yes, the pension fund as we know it for current memebers will die.
And I agree with Mr A Tis - I think that we could be led down th eroad of pay freezes etc - though the least we should ever accept is RPI, otherwise we are accepting a degradation in living conditions.
Mr Barron has openly stated that he believes ATCOs are overpaid by about 20% (I think that's the figure he stated).
Furthermore, about 14 months ago he made a very disparaging set of remarks about ATCOs during a speech he made to a bunch of Private Flyers. The transcript of which was obtainable at the time.
That's by the by though. He can think what he wants... He doesn't really know what ATCOs, or ATSAs or ATCEs do, nor the support staff at CTC, though is probably more in tune with them.
He knows in principle, but he has never actually shadowed them properly for any length of time, and to be fair, he doesn't need to, he is intetrested in NATS as a business, he doesn't really care about what the workforce do. As far as he or any head of a major business is concerned, the product could be anything, the principle of running the business remains the same - cut costs, increase productivity to be very simplistic about it.
Yes he attends ANSP meetings in Europe etc, but he does that as a business man with a view to building partnerships etc- he doesn't understand the nitty gritty of our business and the day he tries to interfere with it is the day he should leave - that's why he has amanagement team (several layers of in fact).
landedoutagain
The possibility of raising the cap to RPI+1% is feasible I suppose. However we have been told that it is the actuaries that insist on a 15 year review period as that is what is needed for them to work their figures. If ther review period is reduced, then it indicates to me that someone is telling porkies.
I fully understand why management would claim they can only afford RPI+0.5%, because it is their job to try to give away as little as possible. The 15 year period however is totaly different.
Anyways, its the closing of the fund to newcomers that is the biggest issue that people seem to have papered over. Once that happens, if the vote is yes, the pension fund as we know it for current memebers will die.
And I agree with Mr A Tis - I think that we could be led down th eroad of pay freezes etc - though the least we should ever accept is RPI, otherwise we are accepting a degradation in living conditions.
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Anotherthing,
I'd be quite interested in reading that transcript if you can point me in the right direction (yes, I know its off topic but lighten up guys...its Xmas after all
)
I'd be quite interested in reading that transcript if you can point me in the right direction (yes, I know its off topic but lighten up guys...its Xmas after all
)
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What happens next ?
My prediction .....
PCS vote yes 60/40
ATCEs vote split 50/50
ATCOs branch vote no 60/40
overall numbers 55/45 yes vote
management press on with changes
much grumbling but no immediate action
reduction of extra duties, ojti, aavas
morale down resentment up
more militant new blood voted into ATCOs branch
annual pay negotiations become less working together and more them+us
worldwide ATCOs shortage starts to drive demands for higher pay
union less willing to accept lower paydeals (to compensate for pension loss)
yearly disputes over pay become commonplace
Current state of worldwide ATCO recruitment.
PCS vote yes 60/40
ATCEs vote split 50/50
ATCOs branch vote no 60/40
overall numbers 55/45 yes vote
management press on with changes
much grumbling but no immediate action
reduction of extra duties, ojti, aavas
morale down resentment up
more militant new blood voted into ATCOs branch
annual pay negotiations become less working together and more them+us
worldwide ATCOs shortage starts to drive demands for higher pay
union less willing to accept lower paydeals (to compensate for pension loss)
yearly disputes over pay become commonplace
Current state of worldwide ATCO recruitment.
Last edited by Ben Doonigan; 10th Dec 2008 at 18:19.
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Mr Barrons speeches ...
I believe it was a speech to the Aviation Club (October 2006?) and in it he criticised ATCOs for being loyal to their licence and not the company ! 
Can't find it anywhere .... keep googling ....
Here is one of his speeches on SES. Anything in that to worry you ?
Not only does Mr B have a chip on his shoulder about how much ATCOs earn, but the pension briefings gave me the feeling that the Prospect and PCS officers do too.
Can't find it anywhere .... keep googling ....Here is one of his speeches on SES. Anything in that to worry you ?
Not only does Mr B have a chip on his shoulder about how much ATCOs earn, but the pension briefings gave me the feeling that the Prospect and PCS officers do too.
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Yep, I think whatever the outcome of the ballot Management will impose the changes. Let us not forget it is just part of the legally required consultation.
And if they get away with filleting the Pension Scheme they'll be absolutely no stopping them.
Anyone who thinks Management have No Plan B is soft in the head.
And if they get away with filleting the Pension Scheme they'll be absolutely no stopping them.
Anyone who thinks Management have No Plan B is soft in the head.
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A quote from Mr B.!
"I was brought into NATS specifically for my experience of bringing about change. In my view, change is easier when the employees can see a burning platform or they realise the business is broken, but this is a very difficult concept in our industry where nothing is broken or burning."
Mr B is trying very hard with our pension to make the company look broken!
The pension issue is now burning too!
I think he has now found the solution to a difficult concept in our industry.
Lots of Love and Christmas Greetings
MR. B.
XXXXXXX
"I was brought into NATS specifically for my experience of bringing about change. In my view, change is easier when the employees can see a burning platform or they realise the business is broken, but this is a very difficult concept in our industry where nothing is broken or burning."
Mr B is trying very hard with our pension to make the company look broken!
The pension issue is now burning too!
I think he has now found the solution to a difficult concept in our industry.
Lots of Love and Christmas Greetings
MR. B.
XXXXXXX
Last edited by viaEGLL; 10th Dec 2008 at 18:29. Reason: Forgot the Kisses!
From that speech about SES, where he quotes (wrongly) Emerson Fittipaldi (actually it was Gilles Villeneuve) " If everything feels in control, then you are not driving fast enough"...would he say, "If the staff aren't bleating, then you are not screwing them enough!"
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Interesting reading the links about PB speech.His company Alstom was under investigation for killing 15 people,and injuring 28 in 2003 when a walkway gave way on the construction site for the QM2.I note that he said nothing about that one in his little talk.At least I,as an overpaid parasite ATCO hasn't KILLED anyone.
PB if you are an engineer,then my late granny was a cowboy.I studied engineering and you certainly couldn't hold any spanner anywhere anytime.Spiv boy yes,chop up companies and pensions yes,engineer bl
dy disgrace.
PB if you are an engineer,then my late granny was a cowboy.I studied engineering and you certainly couldn't hold any spanner anywhere anytime.Spiv boy yes,chop up companies and pensions yes,engineer bl
dy disgrace.
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In the past the ATSA grade have had the balls to strike......16 weeks in all...!!! I fear our ATCO's do not have those same balls....shame really!! Just look at all the money grabbers doing AVA's....it is these folk that in the end have shated us all and will always be willing to do the same!!!!
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Fisbang, you might want to retract that last bit, we ATCOs have many and varied reasons for doing AAVAs, just as my colleagues have many and varied reasons for doing VAPs and overtime.
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I have a copy of the speech to The Aviation Club. (I have just read the SES speech too).
In the Aviation Club speech we learn that "NATS is now run by businessmen. not Air Traffic Controllers"
(Businessmen have just f***ed up the world's financial system).
We are also informed that "ENVIRONMENT is the next big challenge".
Sorry was that Alstom or Aston (a green machine).
Gonzo, I suspect the main reason ATCOs do AAVAs is greed, The same greed that has f***ed up the world's financial system. Alternatively it's the fact that they cannot afford to live in 'Rip Off Britain'.
Remember 'Rip Off Britain', - and that song......"Things Can Only Get Better"
D-REAM was it, mmm, Marvellous!
And who does the song remind us of?
And who did he appoint to shaft your pensions?
In the Aviation Club speech we learn that "NATS is now run by businessmen. not Air Traffic Controllers"
(Businessmen have just f***ed up the world's financial system).
We are also informed that "ENVIRONMENT is the next big challenge".
Sorry was that Alstom or Aston (a green machine).
Gonzo, I suspect the main reason ATCOs do AAVAs is greed, The same greed that has f***ed up the world's financial system. Alternatively it's the fact that they cannot afford to live in 'Rip Off Britain'.
Remember 'Rip Off Britain', - and that song......"Things Can Only Get Better"
D-REAM was it, mmm, Marvellous!
And who does the song remind us of?
And who did he appoint to shaft your pensions?
Last edited by ZOOKER; 11th Dec 2008 at 07:14.
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Thanks for that little snippet Zooker. Maybe NATS should be run by ATCOs, they couldn't do a worse job than the so called "businessmen" who have landed us in this sh*t state of affairs.
Fishbang, ATCOs doing AAVAs are NOT the reason we are about to lose our pension. If only it were that simple...
Fishbang, ATCOs doing AAVAs are NOT the reason we are about to lose our pension. If only it were that simple...
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There is a very strong rumour, that at this point in time, regardless of the outcome of the proposals, there is an exercise taking place within NATS to see where savings through job cuts can be achieved.
Any job cuts that may or may not happen are totally seperate from the pensions issue.
Any job cuts that may or may not happen are totally seperate from the pensions issue.
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Maybe I should re-phrase that to read "run by ATCOs/ATSAs/ATCEs"....that should keep most of us happy
