What triggers SAR
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What triggers SAR
Hi Guys,
I am very curious as to what exactly is the mechanism that triggers Search and Rescue
This weekend a light A/C left EGBJ on Saturday at about 1030am, bound for a private strip EIKH in Ireland, and didn’t make it.
Very concerned at the length of time it took before SAR were alerted. It wasn’t till 7pm that evening.
I assume it left EGBJ under a flight plan so why didn’t SAR start looking one hour after its stated ETA for EIKH.
I know that it is possible to close a flight plan in the air but isn’t the pilot supposed to be in contact with his destination before doing this. (What exactly are the rules on this)
Also (not going to look it up exactly) but isn’t the end of VFR well before 7pm. So to continue beyond the end of VFR, flight must be under IFR rules and therefore under ATC control. So where is the logic in waiting till 7pm to alert SAR
What exactly are the rules/conditions/circumstances by which SAR are alerted.
Many thanks.
I am very curious as to what exactly is the mechanism that triggers Search and Rescue
This weekend a light A/C left EGBJ on Saturday at about 1030am, bound for a private strip EIKH in Ireland, and didn’t make it.
Very concerned at the length of time it took before SAR were alerted. It wasn’t till 7pm that evening.
I assume it left EGBJ under a flight plan so why didn’t SAR start looking one hour after its stated ETA for EIKH.
I know that it is possible to close a flight plan in the air but isn’t the pilot supposed to be in contact with his destination before doing this. (What exactly are the rules on this)
Also (not going to look it up exactly) but isn’t the end of VFR well before 7pm. So to continue beyond the end of VFR, flight must be under IFR rules and therefore under ATC control. So where is the logic in waiting till 7pm to alert SAR
What exactly are the rules/conditions/circumstances by which SAR are alerted.
Many thanks.
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Originally Posted by CAP493
The following preliminary action for a non-radio aircraft shall be commenced not later
than 30 minutes after ETA:
• Check flight plan for obvious errors in compilation or transmission;
• Consult operating company or representative if available;
• Confirm ATD with aerodrome of departure using the quickest means of
communication;
• Inform the ACC supervisor of the situation and in co-ordination with him:
a) Check with alternate aerodromes;
b) Send RQS message;
c) Check with any likely aerodromes on and adjacent to the proposed route of the
aircraft.
The following overdue action for a non-radio aircraft shall be commenced not later
than 1 hour after ETA:
• Notify the parent ACC that the aircraft is now fully overdue and state the action
already taken;
• In consultation with the ACC supervisor, continue endeavours to trace the aircraft,
e.g. notify local police or any other appropriate bodies to be on the lookout for the
aircraft if it is assumed that it has made a forced landing in a particular area.
than 30 minutes after ETA:
• Check flight plan for obvious errors in compilation or transmission;
• Consult operating company or representative if available;
• Confirm ATD with aerodrome of departure using the quickest means of
communication;
• Inform the ACC supervisor of the situation and in co-ordination with him:
a) Check with alternate aerodromes;
b) Send RQS message;
c) Check with any likely aerodromes on and adjacent to the proposed route of the
aircraft.
The following overdue action for a non-radio aircraft shall be commenced not later
than 1 hour after ETA:
• Notify the parent ACC that the aircraft is now fully overdue and state the action
already taken;
• In consultation with the ACC supervisor, continue endeavours to trace the aircraft,
e.g. notify local police or any other appropriate bodies to be on the lookout for the
aircraft if it is assumed that it has made a forced landing in a particular area.
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Word is the pilot closed fightplan with a EIDW controller (Dub South I'd assume) at 12:17 local over RT before switching to local freq for landing
Weather conditions where poor, its been very windy here in recent days
Weather conditions where poor, its been very windy here in recent days
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Thank you all for replies.
CAP 493 is pretty much as I expected and assume EINN operates a similar protocol.
If the plan was closed in the air at 12:17, should it really have taken till 7pm that evening to alert SAR.
Is closing a flight plan in the air as straight forward as it suggests - plan closed, your on your own?
CAP 493 is pretty much as I expected and assume EINN operates a similar protocol.
If the plan was closed in the air at 12:17, should it really have taken till 7pm that evening to alert SAR.
Is closing a flight plan in the air as straight forward as it suggests - plan closed, your on your own?
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Without wishing to concentrate on this specific incident, if a pilot has already closed his flightplan, the only person in any position to alert SAR would be the one waiting at the destination. If the destination is unmanned it may be a while before the authorities get told.
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What u'r saying makes sense I guess.
Will definitly make me think again before closing a plan in the air, especially if my destination is, as you say, an unmanned private strip.
Thanks again
Will definitly make me think again before closing a plan in the air, especially if my destination is, as you say, an unmanned private strip.
Thanks again
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Also (not going to look it up exactly) but isn’t the end of VFR well before 7pm. So to continue beyond the end of VFR, flight must be under IFR rules and therefore under ATC control. So where is the logic in waiting till 7pm to alert SAR
Just because you are flying IFR, it doesn't mean you have to be under ATC control. That has nothing to do with it.
As for closing a flight plan when airborne.. Thats surely a contradiction in terms? How can you close a flight plan if you haven't arrived safely?
Your flight plan is closed the moment you arrive safely at your destination.
What happens if you close your flight plan when airborne but then subsequently have an incident? Even if flying into a private field. Surely somebody should be aware you are inbound incase of a problem?
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There are a couple of relevant threads running on the Flyer forum in light of this tragic accident.
Aviation Forums for pilots - from FLYER Magazine
Aviation Forums for pilots - from FLYER Magazine
From the Irish AIP: -
ENR 1.10.5. Closing a Flight Plan
Outside the State flight plans shall be closed in accordance with the requirements of the appropriate ATS authority. Within the State, whenever a flight plan has been submitted in respect of all or portion of a flight, it shall
be closed either on termination of the flight or on completion of that portion of the flight for which the flight plan was submitted, such closure being effected by one of the methods outlined hereunder;
ENR 1.10.5.1. An arrival report shall be made, either in person, by radio or telephone or via data link at the earliest possible moment after landing to the appropriate air traffic services unit at the aerodrome of arrival in respect of any flight for which a flight plan has been submitted covering the entire flight or the remaining portion of a flight to destination.
ENR 1.10.5.2. When communication facilities at the aerodrome of arrival are known to be inadequate and alternative arrangements for the handling of arrival reports on the ground are not available, the following action shall
be taken:
Immediately prior to landing the aircraft shall, if practicable, transmit by radio or via data link to an appropriate air traffic services unit a flight plan closure message in accordance with paragraph (14) of this Rule; Normally this transmission shall be made to the aeronautical station serving the air traffic services unit in charge of the flight information region in which the aircraft is flying, and an acknowledgement shall be received.
ENR 1.10.5.3. When a flight plan has been submitted only in respect of a portion of a flight other than the remaining portion of a flight to destination, it shall be closed by transmission of a flight plan closure message by radio or via data link to the appropriate air traffic services unit. If it is not practicable to close the flight plan by the methods detailed or when no air traffic services unit exists at the aerodrome of arrival, the arrival report shall be made by telephone or other appropriate means of communication to the nearest air traffic services unit as soon as practicable after landing.
ENR 1.10.5.4. Arrival reports made by aircraft shall contain at least the following elements of information:
a) aircraft identification;
b) aerodrome of departure;
c) time of arrival;
d) aerodrome of arrival;
e) Destination aerodrome if different to (d) above.
ENR 1.10.5.4.1. A flight plan closure message shall contain at least the following elements of information:
a) aircraft identification;
b) aerodrome of departure;
c) aerodrome of destination;
d) position at which flight plan is being closed;
e) time at which flight plan is being closed.
Aviation Forums for pilots - from FLYER Magazine
Aviation Forums for pilots - from FLYER Magazine
From the Irish AIP: -
ENR 1.10.5. Closing a Flight Plan
Outside the State flight plans shall be closed in accordance with the requirements of the appropriate ATS authority. Within the State, whenever a flight plan has been submitted in respect of all or portion of a flight, it shall
be closed either on termination of the flight or on completion of that portion of the flight for which the flight plan was submitted, such closure being effected by one of the methods outlined hereunder;
ENR 1.10.5.1. An arrival report shall be made, either in person, by radio or telephone or via data link at the earliest possible moment after landing to the appropriate air traffic services unit at the aerodrome of arrival in respect of any flight for which a flight plan has been submitted covering the entire flight or the remaining portion of a flight to destination.
ENR 1.10.5.2. When communication facilities at the aerodrome of arrival are known to be inadequate and alternative arrangements for the handling of arrival reports on the ground are not available, the following action shall
be taken:
Immediately prior to landing the aircraft shall, if practicable, transmit by radio or via data link to an appropriate air traffic services unit a flight plan closure message in accordance with paragraph (14) of this Rule; Normally this transmission shall be made to the aeronautical station serving the air traffic services unit in charge of the flight information region in which the aircraft is flying, and an acknowledgement shall be received.
ENR 1.10.5.3. When a flight plan has been submitted only in respect of a portion of a flight other than the remaining portion of a flight to destination, it shall be closed by transmission of a flight plan closure message by radio or via data link to the appropriate air traffic services unit. If it is not practicable to close the flight plan by the methods detailed or when no air traffic services unit exists at the aerodrome of arrival, the arrival report shall be made by telephone or other appropriate means of communication to the nearest air traffic services unit as soon as practicable after landing.
ENR 1.10.5.4. Arrival reports made by aircraft shall contain at least the following elements of information:
a) aircraft identification;
b) aerodrome of departure;
c) time of arrival;
d) aerodrome of arrival;
e) Destination aerodrome if different to (d) above.
ENR 1.10.5.4.1. A flight plan closure message shall contain at least the following elements of information:
a) aircraft identification;
b) aerodrome of departure;
c) aerodrome of destination;
d) position at which flight plan is being closed;
e) time at which flight plan is being closed.
Last edited by matspart3; 27th Oct 2008 at 23:01.
Hmmm, there's something else here too. As a result of another crash where SAR didn't get called until some time after the crash, D&D South looked at this some time ago and got NATS buy-in to change the procedure such that the "receiving" airfield should contact the relevant D&D if an ac became overdue, thus enabling the Cell to start tracing action. I believe that all the NATS units had ammendments made to their MATS Part 2s, but can't remember why it didn;t get carried elsewhere. In the case of the crash mentioned above, once D&D had been told it only took about 20 mins to find the crash site - unfortunately by that stage all of the pax were dead.
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Thanks folks for the replies. Most informative. (Easily the best forum on PPrune)
One poster refered me to another amature forum which was discussing this particular accident.
Actually I wasnt trying to use this particular accident as an example but trying to ascertain the general rule.
I have spent some considerable time trying to estabilish the rules around the closing of flight plans, particularly the closing of flight plans in the air.
I cannot find any rule in JAR OPS (EU OPS) that permits the closing of a flight plan in the air.
Is it therefore something that has "evolved" and become a practice, purely as a common sense procedure to avoid time wasted by over worked controllers who have to follow up pilots who forget to close their flight plans on the ground. (I can completely understand this by the way but has this un sactioned work around led to pilots and passangers .........)
Dubfan
One poster refered me to another amature forum which was discussing this particular accident.
Actually I wasnt trying to use this particular accident as an example but trying to ascertain the general rule.
I have spent some considerable time trying to estabilish the rules around the closing of flight plans, particularly the closing of flight plans in the air.
I cannot find any rule in JAR OPS (EU OPS) that permits the closing of a flight plan in the air.
Is it therefore something that has "evolved" and become a practice, purely as a common sense procedure to avoid time wasted by over worked controllers who have to follow up pilots who forget to close their flight plans on the ground. (I can completely understand this by the way but has this un sactioned work around led to pilots and passangers .........)
Dubfan
