AFFLECK

There is little gloating from the Yes voters, simply because there is nothing to gloat about.

I could understand a Yes vote if you genuinely believed the company was in danger and that this was the best way to save jobs and some of your pension. Unfortunately, we're all now in the morning after period (in our case 15years long), where we have to take the consequences.

It's like cutting your foot off when you have gangrene, you may have saved your life, but it doesn't take long to notice you've a foot missing.

I doubt even the Yes voters can find much to celebrate.

southern jock

Its already been said but sad as the result is, the most upsetting thing is the ridiculous number of ATCO'S who couldn't be bothered to vote. I'm sure some of it is down to people not receiving ballot papers or not updating their address but still the low turnout on such an important vote is sad.

It is going to be interesting to see what the atmosphere is going to be like at work now.

Radarspod

AFFLECK,

Absolutely right. I have absolutely nothing to celebrate, there was nothing to win, only the chance to limit what could be lost (that's IMHO, before you all start - this thread has been back and forward over the same ground so many times, lets move on)

RS

Standard Noise

Rumours were circulating a few weeks back that Starbucks Centre and Starbucks Technical was planning to vote Yes and that it was a done deal. That may have put some people off voting.

Some of my colleagues were all for the Yes vote, mainly those who had never worked for NATS before they pitched up at Brizzel and were therefore less cynical than I about the company's intentions. Hopefully they'll be more cynical when their new employer comes a knocking.

And to think that one of the Swanick Super Duper WMs once said I suffered from 'trust issues'. Me? Never.

Roffa

Not necessarily. I don't think, or at least hope, it would have influenced anybody's choice of vote but it certainly could have further muddied waters that were already not exactly crystal clear.

It was better that it was a clean vote, so to speak.

If there really were funds available for such an inducement then they can go towards any forthcoming pay deal instead

45 before POL

The big issue with many staff has been that it came to this. Many feel betrayed by the government, management, airline group, all quoting previously a lot of hot air and a hidden agenda which is slowly coming to fruition...i feel sorry for NSL which undoubtedly will be a "nice little earner" for them.(although as employees with 5% shareholding we might get a fee starbucks) The biggest problem for our colleagues is that a lot of the contracts are losing money so as part of any buy out, unless these contracts can be renegotiated, expect further fragmentation of NSL and freezing or even cuts in salaries.
As for the bung? It would have been inapropriate bribing for the votes and the union were right to refuse it....howevever if management had that in their warchest then I agree the union should push hard on the pay issue. It won't make amends but it might just leave some members with a little faith in a union, before subscriptions are cancelled.

fisbangwollop

For those that voted yes I hope soon that your vote comes back to haunt you all......one thing for sure from now on in we will get all the sh1te we deserve.....if its not bad enough news to bear here up North our ATSA's have today been told of the fat of so many as we move towards NPC.....Thanks NATS for a very nice Christmas present.....not that you would ever start to care!!!!

Lets hope Mr Barron can sleep easy tonight!!!

RPIplus1

anyone think we'll get a ballot on the forthcoming pay offer?

mr.777

I do hope so as I've been keeping my powder dry...again

Vote NO

AFFLECK

In this case they have cut off the wrong foot


fisbangwollop


What have the ATSAs been told, fisbangwollop?
My mate up in Scottish said the ATSAs might get bad news ?

rumouroid

Let's just make sure we get that 4.8% minimum pay rise in Jan 2009 that the Union said we would. There must be some pot of money available if the rumours of the £1900 bung are true. If there are about 5000 NATS employees and the bung was £1900 then that's £9.5 million. NATS wage bill is about £300 million, so £9.5 million represents 3.15% of the wage bill and so it only leaves another 1.65%, which equates to £4.95 million to find. I reckon that if the Execs don't take the bonus for the new pension scheme they have brought in then that should cover it.

rolaaand

Dear oh dear.Bad news. I appreciate that some people may have genuine reasons for not voting but the ATCO turnout was very poor. However if any of those 30% were definite no voters then I'm sure they would have made sure they got a ballot paper.
I'm sure I'm not the only ATCO who now considers that their future career is not with Nats. The golden handcuffs have been unlocked and the grass just got a hell of a lot greener in foreign climes.
The atmosphere at work was already pretty depressing in the last few months,not really looking forward to being there next week.
That's took the shine off my christmas celebrations,so I'm going to descend into an alcoholic haze over the festive period and start job hunting in the new year.
Try and have a merry one folks! Cheers,rolaaand.

Airways B

Barron has made a point telling us in his blog how he likes playing poker..

The game so far..

Barron, with what he first thought was a weak hand, takes his hand off the revolver he is holding under the table and starts to reach for the money,

Our powder, once dry now lies in a mess. made soggy by union members spit...

HASTYDEPARTURE

I am new to Pprune having been enticed in by the stories of all of the threads and responses relating in particular to the Pensions debacle . I have monitored many people`s posts during this whole consultation process as Paul Barron calls it and thought to myself "they`ve said exactly what I was thinking and shown the level of passion I too have , but have done it more eloquently" , maybe this is down to familiarity with the workings of a site such as this .
However I find myself numbed by , in my opinion , the less than 100% turnout from members of the various branches in what should and has been the most important topic in many a year . An often used phrase here has been "keeping our powder dry" , something we`ve all heard from our Union bods for as long as I can remember . Well for all the good it`s done us we may as well have stuffed the said powder up our noses as apparently one can get a high from doing this - certainly won`t get one from being a member of what must be the biggest joke of a Union . It should be retitled "F..k All Prospect!" or for those with more delicate eyesight "No Prospect!".
It would be pointless going over and over all the excellent points raised over the past couple of months but my availability for AAVAs has just now become zero and my resignation from "No Prospect" was sent with the same speed as my No Vote .
To end I would hope that I can participate in further debates on Pprune with the same enthusiasm , wit and passion that many on here have shown during this sad episode - the Unions took away our right to fight over this issue and I for one cannot forgive them that or remain a member as I don`t want to give them the unwritten permission to do it to me again .
Transmission ended!

BDiONU

Thanks for your comment. Its unfortunate that some people are not as pragmatic as you and are still bellyaching on here about the result of a democratic ballot.

BD

opnot

HastyDeparture
I have nothing to do with the union or union matters .
By resigning your membership of the union I would hope you forgo any payrises or any other benefits the union may achieve now or in the future. As someone who continues to pay their subscriptions, even though I may not like what the union may propose, why should I subsidise any benefits you may receive for free.

mr.777

Not bellyaching, I just don't see the need for you to make comments like "overwhelming" when the figures speak for themselves....in a vote in which it is well documented that you did not participate because you are not a member of the union.
If you'd bothered to read any of my other comments you'd see that I did not make any disparaging comments to any Yes voters on here, quite the opposite in fact. I have accepted the vote, I'm not happy about it, but that's the way it goes. Unfortunately, as usual, you just cannot seem to help yourself when the opportunity arises to wind somebody up.

holdandmaintain

I like most it would seem have accepted the result. However, without entering into a tirade of anger about the whole issue I wonder if it is time that as ATCO's, we should address the issues there appear to be with our union. Having been in a union for many years (in this and previous employs) I am saddened and angered by the way they handled the whole issue and frankly think it has played right into the Barron's hand (Poker or otherwise ).

I acknowledge the support that the Union can provide to us members, but I think that the current representation (more at a higher level from what I understand) is weak and quite frankly not conducting itself in its members interest, more for their own political gain.

I can't offer an alternative (unless the T&G would open its doors) but think we need to act now to show the union and management that we are a force to be reckoned with....it's time the worm turned

mr.777

I think you're right. How does one go about this process though?

holdandmaintain

I wish I knew.....time to do some research I suppose......