Fam Flights for UK ATCOs
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2008
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From: southampton
Fam Flights for UK ATCOs
Looking through a few previous threads is seems obvious to me that we need to sort out this fam flight issue.
It seems that most pilots on here are saying that we are welcome on their flight deck anytime.
Can I ask all pilots who read this and who are in the position to arrange fam flights to post on this thread how we atcos can arrange this. I know people in nats have some contacts but it certainly isn't easy to arrange a fam flight.
Personally, as a newly valid atco i would love to get a few flights in (in my own time if need be) to appreciate the issues that are constantly raised by pilots.
It seems that most pilots on here are saying that we are welcome on their flight deck anytime.
Can I ask all pilots who read this and who are in the position to arrange fam flights to post on this thread how we atcos can arrange this. I know people in nats have some contacts but it certainly isn't easy to arrange a fam flight.
Personally, as a newly valid atco i would love to get a few flights in (in my own time if need be) to appreciate the issues that are constantly raised by pilots.
Joined: Sep 2001
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From: isz
well we seem to have a system at the ice station to organise fam flights...just done a very splendid one with Eastern...many thanks to the guys on the EGPD-EGNJ run on 14/15th July....I so enjoyed it and found it very valuable.
Spink Pots
Joined: Jan 2003
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From: Up in the air
There is a scheme through BA at Swanwick. Go to the "London Control online" page on the intranet and there is a Fam Flight page there.
I have organised a few through the BA contact (PM me if you need details) and they have been a massive help.
The only major problem is that I have to do them in my own time and at my own expense. Whilst the novelty factor of the first few made this worthwhile, I have no desire to go on any more if I have to foot the bill and use up my leave.
I really want to go on more fam flights, especially something different such as trans-atlantic or with a smaller bizjet operator but I have no idea where to start in trying to organise something. The company don't seem one bit interested in assisting with the organisation or accommodating them better, which is a pity.
Controllers NEED to spend more time in the cockpit and pilots NEED to spend more time liasing with ATC in order to gain a better understanding of what each of us do. The fam flights I have been on over the past year or so have been absolutely invaluable for the knowledge I have gained and the pilots involved told me that they gained a lot from it too.
It's a pity that management won't acknowledge this.
EDIT: It see that someone is claiming something is in the pipeline. Fingers crossed it takes off (ho ho)!
I have organised a few through the BA contact (PM me if you need details) and they have been a massive help.
The only major problem is that I have to do them in my own time and at my own expense. Whilst the novelty factor of the first few made this worthwhile, I have no desire to go on any more if I have to foot the bill and use up my leave.
I really want to go on more fam flights, especially something different such as trans-atlantic or with a smaller bizjet operator but I have no idea where to start in trying to organise something. The company don't seem one bit interested in assisting with the organisation or accommodating them better, which is a pity.
Controllers NEED to spend more time in the cockpit and pilots NEED to spend more time liasing with ATC in order to gain a better understanding of what each of us do. The fam flights I have been on over the past year or so have been absolutely invaluable for the knowledge I have gained and the pilots involved told me that they gained a lot from it too.
It's a pity that management won't acknowledge this.
EDIT: It see that someone is claiming something is in the pipeline. Fingers crossed it takes off (ho ho)!
Joined: Apr 1999
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From: UK
Excuse the intrusion by a non-ATCO but a long haul fam flight is probably only useful in terms of seeing somewhere nice for a couple of days. You'll see a bit of UK/Euro ATC (all to a high but familiar standard), maybe some transatlantic HF stuff (frankly a bit dull) and then how not to do it at a foreign port. If time is short then sitting in on a sim check with one of the participating airlines may be a beneficial thing. I have had ATCOs sitting in on my checks at BA and the experience has been mutually beneficial, particularly to me in a subsequent airborne emergency.
On the other hand if you really want to go somewhere nice then keep lobbying. You're always welcome on my flights and I'll even save you the best crew meal!
Edited to add are there any more TRUCE sessions coming up at Swanwick?
On the other hand if you really want to go somewhere nice then keep lobbying. You're always welcome on my flights and I'll even save you the best crew meal!
Edited to add are there any more TRUCE sessions coming up at Swanwick?
Joined: Apr 2001
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From: Near Stalyvegas
For the record, I am an ATSA [latterly Manch Tower, now MACC]
ALL of my Fam Flights,[when available] have been, in my time, my cost [airport tax re-imbursed by the company]...so what? It is a "learning curve".
Yes, it would be nice if we had a "regulated" day off to go flying.
I gave up my days off to do Fam Flights, only to be told that I was doing too many [1 per 2 months]...but nobody else was taking up the offers
Anyone offer me a FamFlight?
watp,iktch
The only major problem is that I have to do them in my own time and at my own expense. Whilst the novelty factor of the first few made this worthwhile, I have no desire to go on any more if I have to foot the bill and use up my leave.
Yes, it would be nice if we had a "regulated" day off to go flying.
I gave up my days off to do Fam Flights, only to be told that I was doing too many [1 per 2 months]...but nobody else was taking up the offers
Anyone offer me a FamFlight?
watp,iktch
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 225
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From: isz
CHIGLET....well done you!! Thats just my thinking too...I think we are still the lucky ones to be able to actually take a fam flight....a flight deck visit...many people cannot do those types of visits and there are people in our company putting the downers on it....I loved my recent fam flights....and cant wait for many more to come
Spink Pots
Joined: Jan 2003
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From: Up in the air
Originally Posted by chiglet
ALL of my Fam Flights,[when available] have been, in my time, my cost [airport tax re-imbursed by the company]...so what? It is a "learning curve".
Some of us have a life outside of work! A fam flight can take up an entire day and can cost a pretty penny when you factor in a drive to Heathrow from the south coast, parking charges and food/drink throughout the day.
Yes, they are extremely beneficial but after the initial novelty wears off, taking a day of your time and a considerable amount of money after a long and hard cycle of work isn't an attractive prospect.
Hopefully that won't be an issue any more though with a new scheme in the pipeline.
Whilst we're on the subject, I'd like to see more pilots in the Ops room but I suspect their scenario is something similar to ours at the minute.
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 97
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From: Southampton
I am nothing to do with the new scheme in the pipeline but I would be utterly amazed if management agreed to let you take a fam flight on a rostered work day! Just not going to happen!
Expenses paid? possibly - but I wouldn't bet on it!
Expenses paid? possibly - but I wouldn't bet on it!
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,122
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From: uk
Atcomarkingtime,
I wouldn't go on the EGPD-EGNJ fam flight,because I got a problem with them flying everywhere in Class G airspace.In fact I bumped into one of the guys going off on that very flight,and I just said ''Your brave''.
Guess what.They got an excellent view of a Tornado in Class G.
I think you can get lots of info from some of the flight deck videos.Or get your flight sim fired up on the computer and fly it yourself.Why sit there getting a hard time from security.The only fam flight I ever took ended up with severe food poisoning.Could hardly get back I was
so much.Thanks SAS.
I wouldn't go on the EGPD-EGNJ fam flight,because I got a problem with them flying everywhere in Class G airspace.In fact I bumped into one of the guys going off on that very flight,and I just said ''Your brave''.
Guess what.They got an excellent view of a Tornado in Class G.
I think you can get lots of info from some of the flight deck videos.Or get your flight sim fired up on the computer and fly it yourself.Why sit there getting a hard time from security.The only fam flight I ever took ended up with severe food poisoning.Could hardly get back I was
so much.Thanks SAS.
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 967
Likes: 43
From: 30 West
We operate a Fam Flight programme at MAN and in the past we have enjoyed the company of several controllers, both at MAN and LBA.
It is usual that the offer is in private time, but also, our kind offer of a visit to MAN radar is in our private time as pilots.
I guess I am fairly pro active on this because I really think it is important for us to see your problems and vise versa.
If offered, please - do it, you will get a great insight into why we ask all the dumbass questions and don't want to do some of the stuff asked
For the pilots around - go see your local ATC, if they have a sim, you may get a play, which is a bit like 3d chess off Star Trek ! I found if you give all UK operators direct CF and put all the foreigners in the hold, they soon go away and your job is easy
It is usual that the offer is in private time, but also, our kind offer of a visit to MAN radar is in our private time as pilots.
I guess I am fairly pro active on this because I really think it is important for us to see your problems and vise versa.
If offered, please - do it, you will get a great insight into why we ask all the dumbass questions and don't want to do some of the stuff asked
For the pilots around - go see your local ATC, if they have a sim, you may get a play, which is a bit like 3d chess off Star Trek ! I found if you give all UK operators direct CF and put all the foreigners in the hold, they soon go away and your job is easy
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 575
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From: In t'sky
It's a shame that the Security goons are putting a stop to all this, what about recurrent sim checking? We always have a spare seat on our checks and there's never really any security issues that would put a stop to it - that might be more worthwile to watch than a normal flight!
Pity, a thoroughly nice bloke from Essex Radar wanted in on my SZG-STN flight a week or so back - for the record you'd have been welcome if my captain hadn't been having a bad day
Horgy
Pity, a thoroughly nice bloke from Essex Radar wanted in on my SZG-STN flight a week or so back - for the record you'd have been welcome if my captain hadn't been having a bad day
Horgy