ATC in NY Area
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Join Date: Sep 2007
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the New York area's five understaffed radar centers
$100,000 eh? Hmmmm, still not desperate enough for foreigners though...
Is there anything more anywhere about the near misses? Preferably from a lesson learning point of view rather than newspaper melodrama.
Join Date: Jul 2007
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My experience with controllers in the NY area and at JFK is not positive! Hopefully this recruitment will help.
It seems as if the one does not know what the other is doing, with constant runway changes, After a 15 hour flight, all I need is a surprise runway change within 12 NM of the field. Initially 04L, changed to 22L and 31R. When approaching the field we got the feeling that 31R was not in use anymore, and after asking was told that it was now 13L. Within 12 NM we were vectored for left base 22L!
Come on guys - give us a heads up by indicating what runway you are vectoring us.
It seems as if the one does not know what the other is doing, with constant runway changes, After a 15 hour flight, all I need is a surprise runway change within 12 NM of the field. Initially 04L, changed to 22L and 31R. When approaching the field we got the feeling that 31R was not in use anymore, and after asking was told that it was now 13L. Within 12 NM we were vectored for left base 22L!
Come on guys - give us a heads up by indicating what runway you are vectoring us.
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: NY
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You act like we enjoy these runway changes, we try to avoid them until the last minute because we have to taxi everyone around everyone including opposite direction stuff, you really need to take a tower tour to catch the whole picture because its alot harder than just sayin lets wait till this guy is on a 12 mile final and switch for the heck of it. Theres always somebody on a 12 mile final, ny airports are some of the busiest in the world and 3 miles apart on final is a blessing!
Join Date: Jul 2006
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I'm curious.... i'm a regional pilot and constantly fly in and out of NYs airports.
Would a career change into the air traffic business be a good move? How much is the pay exactly at the end of the day, after the additions and subtractions...?
thanks!
-downwindabeam
Would a career change into the air traffic business be a good move? How much is the pay exactly at the end of the day, after the additions and subtractions...?
thanks!
-downwindabeam
Join Date: Jan 2008
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Would a career change into the air traffic business be a good move?
The scenario I see as most likely playing out: Obama wins the Presidency and controllers think things will change. Change won't come quickly enough and the (increasingly younger) workforce will start running wildcat slow-downs or something of that nature. A new President won't risk being perceived as "weak" and will over-react. (If you know your history this should sound familiar.) The scenario for McCain would look much the same but without a "honeymoon" period.
If a major disaster happens in the interim, all bets are off. It could go in any direction from vindicating controllers, to villifying controllers to privatizing the system.
Unless you're a huge gambler, now is not the time to join the FAA.
At the end of the day, you'll make between 60k (small facility) to maybe $125,000 (biggest facility) or so in today's dollars. That's just a swag. The precise numbers get real complicated. Under today's rules (the rules the FAA imposed on NATCA 700+ days ago), you're looking at a 30% reduction in salary from the previous contract. Long term, it's probably even worse.
Don Brown
Join Date: Nov 2006
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FAA = False American Advertisement. This is not an american dream job right now. There is no grass here.....so no chance to seen green (not even a green dollar bill).
First chance i get i'm out!!!
Maybe in 5 years it will be better but if u r working in a different company u r probably better off.
First chance i get i'm out!!!
Maybe in 5 years it will be better but if u r working in a different company u r probably better off.
Join Date: Nov 2007
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Runway changes at JFK happen for traffic and weather:
Traffic: At least four times a day we convert from an arrival flow to a departure flow. There is Always an attempt to have two arrival runways during periods of heavy arrival demand to avoid airborne holding. That period strangely enough is followed by the goal of having two departure runways to mitigate and reduce taxi times.
Weather: Given the proximity of LGA and EWR airports in most cases when the configurations at those airports change JFK is Forced to do a runway change.
Fact: In 2004 JFK had 37 Fully certified controllers (ATCO's) now we have 21 with 16 trainees or 40% of the controller work force has zero years of experience.
I have read on this forum that JFK was descibed as the Lagos of North America. I tend to think of being a controller at JFK more like being in Kampala and working for Idi Amin.
Traffic: At least four times a day we convert from an arrival flow to a departure flow. There is Always an attempt to have two arrival runways during periods of heavy arrival demand to avoid airborne holding. That period strangely enough is followed by the goal of having two departure runways to mitigate and reduce taxi times.
Weather: Given the proximity of LGA and EWR airports in most cases when the configurations at those airports change JFK is Forced to do a runway change.
Fact: In 2004 JFK had 37 Fully certified controllers (ATCO's) now we have 21 with 16 trainees or 40% of the controller work force has zero years of experience.
I have read on this forum that JFK was descibed as the Lagos of North America. I tend to think of being a controller at JFK more like being in Kampala and working for Idi Amin.
Join Date: Aug 2008
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Everyone except the off the street hires are gambling right now that we will get a new contract, or else we will all find work elsewhere some sooner than later and some will wait it out for the next administration, as for the off the street hires they dont know what the hell is going on and 65-85k sounds damn good to them. The runway changes are obviously for wind shifts, runway closures for construction and sometimes tfr's like if the met's are playing at home. Laguardia's 13 departure shoots almost right over the stadium. We hate runway changes to it means switching everything around with possibilites of wrong climbouts off different runways and opposite direction taxiing which is always fun to try and juggle the inbounds with the outbounds!
Join Date: Jun 2004
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I have had mixed experiences operating into JFK, 7 runway changes from Trait is my best record, needless to say on that day I was less than impressed.
Conversely, a week or so back, JFK not accepting arrivals due weather, explained to Boston and then JFK that our Diversion was out, and that EWR would be "problematic" with our pax etc....
The controllers at NY centre and then JFK did a fantastic job of getting us around the weather and onto 22L, fantastic job all round.
Its clear to me that its either an issue of under-staffing, or who you get on the day.
Conversely, a week or so back, JFK not accepting arrivals due weather, explained to Boston and then JFK that our Diversion was out, and that EWR would be "problematic" with our pax etc....
The controllers at NY centre and then JFK did a fantastic job of getting us around the weather and onto 22L, fantastic job all round.
Its clear to me that its either an issue of under-staffing, or who you get on the day.
Whilst the need to comence descent so early for New York airports has always puzzled me ("Leave FL410 now maintain FL350 " at 458nm from touchdown is my record), three weeks ago NY App and Newark did a great job of getting us in through some really severe weather. Thanks guys.
