Thales Atc System
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: malaysia
Posts: 404
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thales Atc System
Hello Ctlers....I would like to get some feedback from those
using the THALES ATC SYSTEM. What are the pros and cons.
Appreciate your views.
using the THALES ATC SYSTEM. What are the pros and cons.
Appreciate your views.
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Mauritius,soon or latter
Posts: 542
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It is hard to give such information.
It depends on many factors,such as: softver,aispace complexity,ATCOs and so on ,but you may consider Thales system solution as Mercedes in car industry.
Finally it will be conected with money that your company wishes to pay.
It depends on many factors,such as: softver,aispace complexity,ATCOs and so on ,but you may consider Thales system solution as Mercedes in car industry.
Finally it will be conected with money that your company wishes to pay.
thales atc system
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: ireland
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Stay Away.
Its not controller friendly. Any 'modification' is cost prohibitive.
And when it fails, as it does, no one knows how to resolve it - lots of head scratching and crossing of fingers. Three system shut downs in Dublin in the last four weeks...
Its not controller friendly. Any 'modification' is cost prohibitive.
And when it fails, as it does, no one knows how to resolve it - lots of head scratching and crossing of fingers. Three system shut downs in Dublin in the last four weeks...
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: malaysia
Posts: 404
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thales System
Thnxs guys..appreciate your replies..wud like to hear more from Irish friends regarding the shutdowns. what was the recovery period like?
The demos showed a standalone system in-case main shuts down.Do u guys have it at your Centres?
Hey Singapurcanac...are with SIN ATC?
The demos showed a standalone system in-case main shuts down.Do u guys have it at your Centres?
Hey Singapurcanac...are with SIN ATC?
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: BeiJing ,China
Posts: 140
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Something strange always happens.
1.Why there is always a DUPE alarm when there should not happen ? But why therer is not a DUPE alarm when should have ?
2.When I working this morning ,there is an aircraft took off without an FDR ,then I try to make an radar tag for it ,but the system said "the FDR is already exists" ,but it did not !!!
3.Sometimes the system may lost the radar tag information only leave a 2nd radar surveillance information on radar or there is another same 2nd radar surveillance information flys along with a normal radar tag !!
1.Why there is always a DUPE alarm when there should not happen ? But why therer is not a DUPE alarm when should have ?
2.When I working this morning ,there is an aircraft took off without an FDR ,then I try to make an radar tag for it ,but the system said "the FDR is already exists" ,but it did not !!!
3.Sometimes the system may lost the radar tag information only leave a 2nd radar surveillance information on radar or there is another same 2nd radar surveillance information flys along with a normal radar tag !!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: malaysia
Posts: 404
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thales
Thnxs macker...the demo was a breeze but I guess u guys have seen the storm.
we'll keep this facts in view for future questionings.
appreciate ur replies
we'll keep this facts in view for future questionings.
appreciate ur replies
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: In Denial
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi Veloo
I've been working with Thales the past two years, here's what I've found
If it runs completely error free, it seems to be highly effective, some problems though:
1: RADTAGS (impromptu radar tags) seem to disappear for no reason
2: RAM (Route adherence monitor)(I think) goes off for apparently no reason sometimes... Even though the acft is enroute or even only just ariborne
3: It seems, in our airspace, when helicopters get too close together squawking 2600, for some reason they couple and show a squawk of 7600 thus triggering an RCF alarm.
4: Personal opinion, but all the alarms sound the same, regardless of their meaning, I'd like to see some diversity in this regard to channel the focus where needed. especially when you're getting multiple "false" alarms.
5: In the same light, the alarms are also a little excessive, once the alarm goes off, it seems never to end.
6: Last and certainly not least, we experience a system failure about once every two weeks. Down time can vary from 20 minutes, to a couple hours, depending on the problem
Hope it helps...
I've been working with Thales the past two years, here's what I've found
If it runs completely error free, it seems to be highly effective, some problems though:
1: RADTAGS (impromptu radar tags) seem to disappear for no reason
2: RAM (Route adherence monitor)(I think) goes off for apparently no reason sometimes... Even though the acft is enroute or even only just ariborne
3: It seems, in our airspace, when helicopters get too close together squawking 2600, for some reason they couple and show a squawk of 7600 thus triggering an RCF alarm.
4: Personal opinion, but all the alarms sound the same, regardless of their meaning, I'd like to see some diversity in this regard to channel the focus where needed. especially when you're getting multiple "false" alarms.
5: In the same light, the alarms are also a little excessive, once the alarm goes off, it seems never to end.
6: Last and certainly not least, we experience a system failure about once every two weeks. Down time can vary from 20 minutes, to a couple hours, depending on the problem
Hope it helps...
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Mauritius,soon or latter
Posts: 542
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
@chillie,
what do you want to say? That other solutions(raytheon,selecta,indra) work without problem? have you been informed about completely system failure in one European system,recently? They lost: radar picture both primary and secondary,plus all voice communication devices and so on,with some 150+ planes on frequency. Only private mobile telephone worked. And their system is not Thales.
So, every particular system is vulnerable. It is just question of time and place.
from my point of view Thales is good solution but people sometimes are not ready to accept and learn enough. Of course,management likes money i.e. it is better to give yourself bonus rather than to invest into operational system.
That is not Thales failure.
what do you want to say? That other solutions(raytheon,selecta,indra) work without problem? have you been informed about completely system failure in one European system,recently? They lost: radar picture both primary and secondary,plus all voice communication devices and so on,with some 150+ planes on frequency. Only private mobile telephone worked. And their system is not Thales.
So, every particular system is vulnerable. It is just question of time and place.
from my point of view Thales is good solution but people sometimes are not ready to accept and learn enough. Of course,management likes money i.e. it is better to give yourself bonus rather than to invest into operational system.
That is not Thales failure.
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: ireland
Posts: 109
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SINGAPURCANAC, I would draw your attention to the iaa/dublin threads here at the moment. The failures of the system are so frequent, that confidence has been lost.
The extent of this is that currently, 4 days after the Thales Eurocat sat down (twice!!!) the system is still operating on a reduced capacity. This is for fear that it will sit down again.
Safety first, but who do you think is to blame?
The extent of this is that currently, 4 days after the Thales Eurocat sat down (twice!!!) the system is still operating on a reduced capacity. This is for fear that it will sit down again.
Safety first, but who do you think is to blame?
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Mauritius,soon or latter
Posts: 542
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
@beamwidth,
If you read carefully my post you will never find that I said Thales was perfect. Anyhow it is just an electronic and softwer equipment and as such is vulnerable.
If you read carefully my post you will never find that I said Thales was perfect. Anyhow it is just an electronic and softwer equipment and as such is vulnerable.
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: ireland
Posts: 109
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Point taken!
The Eurocat is breaking down so frequently, that it would be a misnomer to say it was vulnerable, its appears defenceless against any anomoly that causes it to degrade
Anyhow it is just an electronic and softwer equipment and as such is vulnerable.
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Mauritius,soon or latter
Posts: 542
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Safety first, but who do you think is to blame?
if they had done job properly you and your colleagues would have easier job those days.
I may bet that someone from your company didn't "produce" adequate procedures for such cases and even more your company didn't buy exactly what they need.
If you have two separate system,both capable for expected traffic level you will never see completely system break down.
you can't explain to me that your company is working properly. From safety point of view.
From previous threads I realised that your company hasn't hired and trainned people for more than six years. Traffic increased considerably but you remain the same or even reduced number of operational ATCOs.
No ,Thales is not the only one who should be blamed for current problems.
Unfortunatelly, Michel O' Leary knows his job.
So far no one has proved differently!
More than just an ATCO
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Up someone's nose
Age: 75
Posts: 1,768
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
who do you think is to blame
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: ireland
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dublin ATCO's got some minor input into the system shortly before it went live. It's inadequacies were very apparent but the system had been long chosen at that stage.
The system chosen was an en route system, modified for a terminal area environment.
The IAA have claimed the system passed it's safety assessment procedures with flying colours. They probably still do.
ATCO's who have highlighted problems have had very little success in achieving any changes.
The system chosen was an en route system, modified for a terminal area environment.
The IAA have claimed the system passed it's safety assessment procedures with flying colours. They probably still do.
ATCO's who have highlighted problems have had very little success in achieving any changes.
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: ireland
Posts: 51
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Conflict of interest
The IAA have claimed the system passed it's safety assessment procedures with flying colours. They probably still do.
There is no separation between regulator and ANSP, contrary to Eurocontrol requirements.
Cant be too surprised that the IAA are making such claims
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Scandinavia
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thales.... think twice!
French engineers developing a system for ATC...... "wouldn't f... it with a stolen d...!"
Malmo (Sweden) has had problems, Dublin has had problems and now Copenhagen has severe problems. I would definately think twice before signing with Thales.
Loss of label (nothing in lost list so You better remember the callsign before impact), frozen workingpositions, problems processing flightplans, patches fixing known problems causes new problems to emerge - and I could continue!
Malmo (Sweden) has had problems, Dublin has had problems and now Copenhagen has severe problems. I would definately think twice before signing with Thales.
Loss of label (nothing in lost list so You better remember the callsign before impact), frozen workingpositions, problems processing flightplans, patches fixing known problems causes new problems to emerge - and I could continue!