ATC Overtime
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ATC Overtime
Hi to everyone!
Just wonder what everyone else is getting for working overtime duty?
I don't mean actual dollar, but do you get double rate, single rate or no rate?
For info we in HK do not get any payment for overtime work - just Time Off in Lieu (TOIL). Problem is now we are so short staff, our employer (HK Goverment, CAD) cannot pay it back in any sensible time. We have some controller with more than 300 hours TOIL owe to them and everyones balance going up fast.
I the whole ATC world seems to suffer this shortage too but how is it solve in your place?
Thanks.
Suzie
Just wonder what everyone else is getting for working overtime duty?
I don't mean actual dollar, but do you get double rate, single rate or no rate?
For info we in HK do not get any payment for overtime work - just Time Off in Lieu (TOIL). Problem is now we are so short staff, our employer (HK Goverment, CAD) cannot pay it back in any sensible time. We have some controller with more than 300 hours TOIL owe to them and everyones balance going up fast.
I the whole ATC world seems to suffer this shortage too but how is it solve in your place?
Thanks.
Suzie
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In OZ we get 1.85 hours pay for each hours OT. With the minimum payment for OT on a day off of 4 hours pay at 1.85.
We can exchange OT for TOIL too, but you get 1.00 TOIL credits for 1.00 hours worked; so most people take the cash. When we accrue TOIL allegedly we can't hold a balance in excess of 2 days; although this isn't strictly policed. Some TOIL isn't officially recorded and has caused problems when individuals try to claim it back.
Seems to me if your swings and roundabouts system is all swings then you need to get a payment system fast or an ability to say NO to extra shifts if you haven't got that ability.
A good solution to your problem is to recruit more staff; there are plenty of Aussies willing to jump on a the slow boat to honkers without too much pushing at all I'd bet
We can exchange OT for TOIL too, but you get 1.00 TOIL credits for 1.00 hours worked; so most people take the cash. When we accrue TOIL allegedly we can't hold a balance in excess of 2 days; although this isn't strictly policed. Some TOIL isn't officially recorded and has caused problems when individuals try to claim it back.
Seems to me if your swings and roundabouts system is all swings then you need to get a payment system fast or an ability to say NO to extra shifts if you haven't got that ability.
A good solution to your problem is to recruit more staff; there are plenty of Aussies willing to jump on a the slow boat to honkers without too much pushing at all I'd bet
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ATC Overtime
Hello Suzie...greetings from Malaysia.
In Malaysia, ATCO's are placed either in the graduate scheme
or non-graduate scheme of service. We come under the
purview of the Ministry of Transport which comes under
the jurisdiction of the Civil Service.
All Radar Ctlers & Procedure Ctlers fall under the graduate scheme.( except for a few Ctlers who have been upgraded from rank and file)
The graduate scheme provides no o/t (overtime) at all.Its TOIL but we can finish it off as and when required.
Non graduate scheme pays o/t. They do follow Civil Service guidelines. Not too bad. A night shift can earn 200-350 Ringgit Malaysia (US100). Not bad.Rates differ on Public Holidays.
In Malaysia, ATCO's are placed either in the graduate scheme
or non-graduate scheme of service. We come under the
purview of the Ministry of Transport which comes under
the jurisdiction of the Civil Service.
All Radar Ctlers & Procedure Ctlers fall under the graduate scheme.( except for a few Ctlers who have been upgraded from rank and file)
The graduate scheme provides no o/t (overtime) at all.Its TOIL but we can finish it off as and when required.
Non graduate scheme pays o/t. They do follow Civil Service guidelines. Not too bad. A night shift can earn 200-350 Ringgit Malaysia (US100). Not bad.Rates differ on Public Holidays.
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Within NATS, ATCOs can do what are called AAVAs (ATCO Additional Voluntary Attendances), which are paid a flat rate from £300 to £550 per shift depending on the pay banding of the unit.
Ohcirrej
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Nav Canada pays double time for overtime, which is either paid out or can be "banked" as such, and taken as TOIL (8 hour overtime = 16 hours TOIL). Minimum O/T shift 4 hours, maximum 12 hours. Some people bank all their O/T and take it as one huge lump sum payout at the end of the financial year (or is it 6 months now? Can't remember, I don't bank mine). Best paycheck I have seen was in the $20k's
Unfortunately, to obtain TOIL there has to be be staff available or spares on for that day.......
Unfortunately, to obtain TOIL there has to be be staff available or spares on for that day.......
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Hi Suzie,
CAD still up to their old tricks are they.
They should buy the staff out,and using NATS AVAA figures,I reckon they owe over HKD 15,000,000,or about £1,000,000 for the unpaid,compulsory overtime.
That's what happens when you can't give people their TOIL back.
Somehow I can't see them paying up,but if they do then they still owe me some.
CAD still up to their old tricks are they.
They should buy the staff out,and using NATS AVAA figures,I reckon they owe over HKD 15,000,000,or about £1,000,000 for the unpaid,compulsory overtime.
That's what happens when you can't give people their TOIL back.Somehow I can't see them paying up,but if they do then they still owe me some.
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a clarification to SM4's post:
In Oz, if you attend for an additional duty with short notice, you get the 1.85x rate.
If you agree a couple of days in advance to plug a hole in the roster, you get an overtime rate of something like 1.5x for the first 5(?) hours, then 1.85x for the rest.
In Oz, if you attend for an additional duty with short notice, you get the 1.85x rate.
If you agree a couple of days in advance to plug a hole in the roster, you get an overtime rate of something like 1.5x for the first 5(?) hours, then 1.85x for the rest.
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Under,
I'm with the Pirate 1.85 for extra hours worked; you're thinking the last agreement; it was 1.18 and 1.79 from memory. But now it's all at 1.85.
Cheers,
Block
I'm with the Pirate 1.85 for extra hours worked; you're thinking the last agreement; it was 1.18 and 1.79 from memory. But now it's all at 1.85.
Cheers,
Block
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Blockla - the last Eba must have been when I stopped volunteering for overtime in advance.
So in the habit of saying no, (time off is very important to me) that I did not know they'd changed it back.
So in the habit of saying no, (time off is very important to me) that I did not know they'd changed it back.
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Thanks to all so far for your info. I would like to hear also from our colleague in US and Europe and Japan maybe if possible?
Looks like HK and our friends in Malaysia have a lot of catching ups to do! Seems more than US600-700 is normal for you other guys!
I also been reading the posts about overtime problems in Ireland and realisze that payment is not the only solution to the extreme overtime we suffer but at least some improvment in morale.
We have new Association President so will make it his first job.
Thanks again.
Looks like HK and our friends in Malaysia have a lot of catching ups to do! Seems more than US600-700 is normal for you other guys!
I also been reading the posts about overtime problems in Ireland and realisze that payment is not the only solution to the extreme overtime we suffer but at least some improvment in morale.
We have new Association President so will make it his first job.
Thanks again.
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norway
hi suzie, greetings from Norway in the far north
We have a system based on the following:
Normal overtime is 2 times the hourly pay.
Overtime on a sunday (when it's our weekend off), pays 3 times per hour.
Overtime on a official holiday pays 3.4 times (if I'm not mistaken).
We have no extra for night, evenings or other (it's baked into our yearly pay).
We had a system with TOIL a few years back, but that was erased from our agreement because our employer was so short-staffed that could not afford to give us days off.
We're in negotiations for a new agreement these days, so time will show what happens next
We have a system based on the following:
Normal overtime is 2 times the hourly pay.
Overtime on a sunday (when it's our weekend off), pays 3 times per hour.
Overtime on a official holiday pays 3.4 times (if I'm not mistaken).
We have no extra for night, evenings or other (it's baked into our yearly pay).
We had a system with TOIL a few years back, but that was erased from our agreement because our employer was so short-staffed that could not afford to give us days off.
We're in negotiations for a new agreement these days, so time will show what happens next
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Overtime Pay
The ex-union president had tried hard on the issue of overtime payment, so far we got none of a dime. Our pursue now gone with his step down. Lesson learnt: don't ask or expect anything from the union or management, keep quiet and continue the turn turn turn.
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Thanks Z10. We have 2 very friendly ex colleague return to Norway - no wonder for 3.4 x on PH overtime!
I agree our past president try very hard for us but to no avail. I urge my colleague to join our Assoc if you are not a member and work with new President to achive something. Look what others are getting!
Cummon Doctor, lead the way!! No room for Management lap dog here in current climate.
The ex-union president had tried hard on the issue of overtime payment, so far we got none of a dime. Our pursue now gone with his step down.
Cummon Doctor, lead the way!! No room for Management lap dog here in current climate.
