A small detail for UK NATS staff (National ID cards)
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A small detail for UK NATS staff (National ID cards)
Apologies in advance for bringing this up if it doesn't apply to you personally, but over at the NATS forum, we have been having a conversation concerning National ID cards and the National Identity Register. From the latest government consultation document it seems as though all airside staff are going to have to be enrolled in this 'voluntary' scheme on penalty of losing our jobs (and it seems unlikely that the same requirements will not be rolled out to all other NATS staff as well). Some people seem to have no issue with this, and others of us have, well, a differing viewpoint. Again, my apologies if this is being dealt with in another thread, but I thought it was worthwhile bringing up for discussion here as well.
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Neo - it's called a slippery slope. First you give up this one liberty... Oh, hang on, it's the UK. Most of the liberties have already gone. May as well let the government implant an ID chip under your skin. My dog doesn't seem to mind it, and if it helps the crime figures... 
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Originally Posted by NeoDude
Nothing to hide, nothing to fear
The biggest thing all of us have to fear is the lack of security displayed by those who retain all the information.
We've already seen how slip-shod the current system is with regard to handling our bank details, NI numbers, DoB etc. Anything in fact that the unscrupulous could use to their own criminal ends.
This lot would have a tough time keeping a toilet cubicle door secure, never mind anything else.
The less info HM Govt. hold on me, the less the useless B*****ds will be likely to lose.
Not that we ever go 'airside' here, our NATS / Airport I-D should be all a person needs to go about their legitimate day-to-day business on behalf of our employer.
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WRONG!
The biggest thing all of us have to fear is the lack of security displayed by those who retain all the information.
The biggest thing all of us have to fear is the lack of security displayed by those who retain all the information.
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If the National Identity card were just that i.e. a photo card confirmed with your identity then i doubt many would object but it is much more than that. All sorts of information is to be stored via it including your credit rating and goodness knows what else ( I wouldn't be at all surprised if DNA didn't enter into the fray at some point) .
This is introducing a national scheme by stealth a supposedly non compulsory scheme which will be compulsory or you lose your job. Every airport worker wears an ID badge already, if there are problems with that scheme then reinforce that rather than bring yet another security check. I doubt if the badge they give you from a national scheme will be compatible with airports security systems so either airports have to bring in a new one at great expense or people have to carry around 2 badges of ID.
National Identity cards do not improve national security, and when the terrorist crimes committed in the UK over the last 3 decades were in the main perpetrated by British Citizens anyway who are they trying to kid. It's just another way of reinforcing Big brother Britain
This is introducing a national scheme by stealth a supposedly non compulsory scheme which will be compulsory or you lose your job. Every airport worker wears an ID badge already, if there are problems with that scheme then reinforce that rather than bring yet another security check. I doubt if the badge they give you from a national scheme will be compatible with airports security systems so either airports have to bring in a new one at great expense or people have to carry around 2 badges of ID.
National Identity cards do not improve national security, and when the terrorist crimes committed in the UK over the last 3 decades were in the main perpetrated by British Citizens anyway who are they trying to kid. It's just another way of reinforcing Big brother Britain
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I too have concerns about the ID card scheme and do not like the government using airport workers as a way of slowly implementing it through the back door ,under the umbrella of national security etc. so joe public will not argue with it.
Anyone whether you agree with the scheme or not can see that the government have realised a national launch would not work , because they fear poll tax type demostrations ,so this is the latest plan.
Very clever by the government because if we object its like saying you are against national security measures.
WE ARE BEING USED MY FRIENDS
Anyone whether you agree with the scheme or not can see that the government have realised a national launch would not work , because they fear poll tax type demostrations ,so this is the latest plan.
Very clever by the government because if we object its like saying you are against national security measures.
WE ARE BEING USED MY FRIENDS
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If it is going to improve crime figures and help control immigration then I'm all for it.
http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/cn_n....asp?ID=263753
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Neo,
I am against ID cards because in my opinion they will not stop illegal imigration by any great number and they will definately not stop attacks like the London bombings from happening.
After the London bombings, the government pushed harder for ID cards saying they would help prevent these atrocities... not true as those responsible would have been legally entitled to cary the ID Card.
As for illegal immigrants, how exactly will an ID Card cut the numbers by any significant proportion? They smuggle themselves (or get smuggled by others) into this country. They are not being caught at ports, or on the many small secluded bays they can land at.
Why? Because we do not have the resources allocated (nor the political will power) to prevent immigration at source.
Do you think that if a bunch of people get caught sneaking into the country they are allowed to continue on their way because we do not as yet have an ID Card system in force? They flood into this country because the vast majority of them do not get caught.
Once they get into the country, forging 'official' documents is not exactly difficult.
Having an ID Card that the authorities can check is all very well... you have to catch them first before you can check for it - and catching them is not happening.
We have all seen pictures of 'Illegals' on the continental mainland gathering in numbers waiting for darkness... the French authorities et al turn a blind eye becauses they are off loading the problem to us!
Instead of ID Cards, maybe we should stop being such a soft touch to the scroungers on benefits... then we will not be as attractive a prospect for people to come to!
I am against ID cards because in my opinion they will not stop illegal imigration by any great number and they will definately not stop attacks like the London bombings from happening.
After the London bombings, the government pushed harder for ID cards saying they would help prevent these atrocities... not true as those responsible would have been legally entitled to cary the ID Card.
As for illegal immigrants, how exactly will an ID Card cut the numbers by any significant proportion? They smuggle themselves (or get smuggled by others) into this country. They are not being caught at ports, or on the many small secluded bays they can land at.
Why? Because we do not have the resources allocated (nor the political will power) to prevent immigration at source.
Do you think that if a bunch of people get caught sneaking into the country they are allowed to continue on their way because we do not as yet have an ID Card system in force? They flood into this country because the vast majority of them do not get caught.
Once they get into the country, forging 'official' documents is not exactly difficult.
Having an ID Card that the authorities can check is all very well... you have to catch them first before you can check for it - and catching them is not happening.
We have all seen pictures of 'Illegals' on the continental mainland gathering in numbers waiting for darkness... the French authorities et al turn a blind eye becauses they are off loading the problem to us!
Instead of ID Cards, maybe we should stop being such a soft touch to the scroungers on benefits... then we will not be as attractive a prospect for people to come to!
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Yep, I do agree that they will not solve all these problems by themselves. But it's certainly a step in the right direction. In the future I would like to see this ID card replace all our credit/bank cards, driving license, work IDs and even pilot/ATC licenses. I do have reservations about how secure the info would be but I reckon that overall it's a good idea.
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The UK ID card will not be compatible with airport ID systems unless the latter are completely replaced. Citizens will not be required to carry the UK ID card (mind you, it's also supposed tp be voluntary) so you will therefore have to have your airport card to obtain entrance. Given the checks we have to go through to obtain the airport ID card, is the infringement of our rights going to make any difference to security?
It's easy to pick on us, airport security is headline stuff, but we should resist. happily, if you look around, resistance is growing. I won't go without a fight.
It's easy to pick on us, airport security is headline stuff, but we should resist. happily, if you look around, resistance is growing. I won't go without a fight.
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Neodude, wake up smell the coffee . We are being used. I to are not totally against them in principle and have lived in countries where it has been mandatory to have one., but i object to being used by the government and the whole argument being manipulated in order that they get what they want. This governments attitude is, if they dont get the answer they want they change the rules or move the goal posts so that they eventually get what they want.(just like the EU constitution)
The total apathy and general attitude of "theres not much we can do about it" really gets to me. We are a democracy and its about time we stood up for our rights and made the people we elected(not me personally)
listen to us.
The total apathy and general attitude of "theres not much we can do about it" really gets to me. We are a democracy and its about time we stood up for our rights and made the people we elected(not me personally)
listen to us.
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For less than £100, and often for free, I could find out where most of you live, your credit record and many other personal details such as shopping habits and many other personal preferences.
All I have to do is to become a registered UK company and sign up to the many organisations who offer these details.
If you hold any sort of personal loyality or credit card (Tesco, Sainsbury down to the smallest) and haven't opted out of their right to sell on your details, then it's a complete doddle to get your details.
Whilst I have no objection to an ID card, if they can't get the driving licence right, or the above, what's the point?
All I have to do is to become a registered UK company and sign up to the many organisations who offer these details.
If you hold any sort of personal loyality or credit card (Tesco, Sainsbury down to the smallest) and haven't opted out of their right to sell on your details, then it's a complete doddle to get your details.
Whilst I have no objection to an ID card, if they can't get the driving licence right, or the above, what's the point?
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Well to all those who say 'there's nothing to fear' and ' they have all these details anyway', then why don't the government just go ahead and issue the ID cards to all of us now?
This government is incapable of letting us live our lives and keeping us safe by conventional means (safe and secure borders, adequate policing etc) so it is trying to force us into a scheme which is ill thought out and unsuitable for what they claim it will achieve.
We should stand up with BALPA and say no. As I've said before, if they don't listen then 'All out brothers.'
This government is incapable of letting us live our lives and keeping us safe by conventional means (safe and secure borders, adequate policing etc) so it is trying to force us into a scheme which is ill thought out and unsuitable for what they claim it will achieve.
We should stand up with BALPA and say no. As I've said before, if they don't listen then 'All out brothers.'
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Instead of ID Cards, maybe we should stop being such a soft touch to the scroungers on benefits... then we will not be as attractive a prospect for people to come to!
If the only way to work in the UK was via the legal route there would be no point in illegal immigrants travelling.
Close down the British sources of illegal employment for illegal workers (both immigrant and nationals) and there will end a large part of the problem.
By requiring only UK national who work in a secure well checked industry to have the ID cards the Authorities have neatly avoided the issue. Of course the thousands of foreign people who are quite entitled to work in UK aviation and who choose to do so will not have to worry about loosing their jobs.
I can just see it - mass dismissal of UK Nationals who refuse to have the voluntary ID card - to be replaced by Foreign people who are quite entitled to have the job and just as qualified but who do not have to have an ID card!
Of course those people are far cheaper for the Governemt - unlike many UK people they either work or leave the country and when they retire they in the majority of cases also leave the country. If everyone was like that the Government would save trillions.
Regards,
DFC
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Put yourself here.
You are out for a drive in the car. You stop for a break, smoke a tab. Get on your way.
A week later a nutter dumps a body in the hedge.
Body gets found, SOC move in - you get a dawn raid.
Well members of the Jury. Hair was found at the scene, the DNA led us to Mr bollocked via the database.
When we looked in his garage there was the means of transporting the body - the car even has mud matching that of the scene.
Where were you on the evening of - err at home reading a book, out for a drive. Can you prove that, no - oh dear thats life for you then.
Oh did you hear about bollocked, yeah never would have thought but he was bang to rights the scum bag.....
At present you have to be a suspect for real reasons and DNA is there to assist final ID - this gives some protection. With a database you just become the first to get nailed, crime gets solved figures look good.
You are out for a drive in the car. You stop for a break, smoke a tab. Get on your way.
A week later a nutter dumps a body in the hedge.
Body gets found, SOC move in - you get a dawn raid.
Well members of the Jury. Hair was found at the scene, the DNA led us to Mr bollocked via the database.
When we looked in his garage there was the means of transporting the body - the car even has mud matching that of the scene.
Where were you on the evening of - err at home reading a book, out for a drive. Can you prove that, no - oh dear thats life for you then.
Oh did you hear about bollocked, yeah never would have thought but he was bang to rights the scum bag.....
At present you have to be a suspect for real reasons and DNA is there to assist final ID - this gives some protection. With a database you just become the first to get nailed, crime gets solved figures look good.