Malaga Twr this morning.
niknak
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Even ATCOs have to learn, unlike Bearcat, who knew it all from day one and has never made an error in his/her entire career, so much so, that he/her deems it unecessary to publish their esteemed qualifications and experience on a public profile.
If you have any criticism to make, be professional and constructive about it.
If you have any criticism to make, be professional and constructive about it.
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Jeez wept. I know it's busy, but I could'nt wait to get out of Heathrow today, such was the poor level of R/T standard by some of the pilots - (but then again I expect some of them may be new to the place)
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I knew you'd all jump down my throat......like sweets in a candy store. Suprised though that beginner training can be done on a very busy saturday morning to the extent traffic was back logged on the ramp as everything was operating at snails pace......it was notamed though to be fair.
Anyway happy days ..thanks
Anyway happy days ..thanks
Last edited by Bearcat; 9th Mar 2008 at 11:54.
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Errr....well you see the idea of training people in the night shift whilst all the qualified staff on the premises is watching a dvd or something did cross our minds but then again: if there's nothing to do what on earth will they learn? You know we need to push the guys and gals gradually till they can manage on their own and sometimes it is actually possible they need to sink a bit and swallow some water to improve their swimming...if you catch my drift.
Anyways the point of most of the replies being that you should have been more specific on what you want or think...just whining won't take you far here I is afraid.
Sorry if service sometimes is bad but we ain't machines (we're better!! lol )
A.
Anyways the point of most of the replies being that you should have been more specific on what you want or think...just whining won't take you far here I is afraid.
Sorry if service sometimes is bad but we ain't machines (we're better!! lol )
A.
More than just an ATCO
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There are limits to what can be attained in a simulator, bearcat. Unfortunately the benefits obtained do not equate to the costs involved as far as ATC is concerned.
For example, most airline sims run 24 hours a day; the differences between a/c of the same type used by different operators are minimal.Highly cost efficient. In ATC, even at a large unit the time it's being used will rarely exceed 30%. Due to the large number of systems in use; not to mention the differences TWR/APP/ACC/UAC each requires a different model. Extremely cost inefficient Of course, every ATC unit could install a very realistic sim but who would pay for it? Would your employer cough up? He could always deduct the costs from your salary as you would be benefitting?
It's a fact of life. ATC students are always going to be thrown in at the deepend.Compare it with your good self, what was your first solo in ; PA24 or B74?
For example, most airline sims run 24 hours a day; the differences between a/c of the same type used by different operators are minimal.Highly cost efficient. In ATC, even at a large unit the time it's being used will rarely exceed 30%. Due to the large number of systems in use; not to mention the differences TWR/APP/ACC/UAC each requires a different model. Extremely cost inefficient Of course, every ATC unit could install a very realistic sim but who would pay for it? Would your employer cough up? He could always deduct the costs from your salary as you would be benefitting?
It's a fact of life. ATC students are always going to be thrown in at the deepend.Compare it with your good self, what was your first solo in ; PA24 or B74?
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Forgive me Lon, but you may have meant PA28 rather than PA24... 
Reminds me of those two weeks spent with BA at the end of my CATC course, when we got let loose in a 767-300 sim. Says the training captain, "remember, it's just a big Cherokee." I wanted to reply "sure, but I've only soloed in a C152..."
Anyway, back to Bearcat's original rant and following taking home of his ball, it is entirely possible that the instructing controller let things get out of hand, but it's equally possible that something was going on to prevent expedition (flow control, etc) which just wasn't communicated well enough from the tower. Without knowing what it was that annoyed Bearcat, it's hard to comment with any authority.
So, come on Bearcat, tell us what actually happened and we'll stick our collective teeth into it.
Reminds me of those two weeks spent with BA at the end of my CATC course, when we got let loose in a 767-300 sim. Says the training captain, "remember, it's just a big Cherokee." I wanted to reply "sure, but I've only soloed in a C152..."
Anyway, back to Bearcat's original rant and following taking home of his ball, it is entirely possible that the instructing controller let things get out of hand, but it's equally possible that something was going on to prevent expedition (flow control, etc) which just wasn't communicated well enough from the tower. Without knowing what it was that annoyed Bearcat, it's hard to comment with any authority.
So, come on Bearcat, tell us what actually happened and we'll stick our collective teeth into it.
More than just an ATCO
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you may have meant PA28 rather than PA24...
The Cooler King
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Lon More First solo was in a Rallye.....a great little machine and very forgiving with its auto extend/ retract leading edges function. For poor handlers like myself a life saver
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Lon More First solo was in a Rallye.....a great little machine and very forgiving with its auto extend/ retract leading edges function. For poor handlers like myself a life saver
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Sorry all,
I'm with Bearcat on this one.
We have a huge training committment at LHR, admittedly our trainees get 100 hours in the sim first, but we never slow the traffic down in the real world for a trainee. We have 2/3 trainees per watch (although they are dropping like flies) so with spin shifts included, that means that at any time between 0630 - 2300 of the 5 operational LHR tower frequencies 3 or 4 could be operated by trainees.
If we slowed the traffic down so they could learn at an appropriate pace, the shambles that it is LL would fall to pieces in minutes.
If the traffic is above the trainees capability the OJTI should step in.
If they 'aren't' doinf this at Malaga then that's poor, plus it does the trainee no benefit to have a traffic scenario that falls apart around them, having them constantly playing catch up!
I'm with Bearcat on this one.
We have a huge training committment at LHR, admittedly our trainees get 100 hours in the sim first, but we never slow the traffic down in the real world for a trainee. We have 2/3 trainees per watch (although they are dropping like flies) so with spin shifts included, that means that at any time between 0630 - 2300 of the 5 operational LHR tower frequencies 3 or 4 could be operated by trainees.
If we slowed the traffic down so they could learn at an appropriate pace, the shambles that it is LL would fall to pieces in minutes.
If the traffic is above the trainees capability the OJTI should step in.
If they 'aren't' doinf this at Malaga then that's poor, plus it does the trainee no benefit to have a traffic scenario that falls apart around them, having them constantly playing catch up!
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We have 2/3 trainees per watch (although they are dropping like flies)...
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there's obviously little going on for this thread to be so active!! later on when the winds spice up I'm sure we'll see more fresher and interesting threads.
In relation to what happened....nothing....just was taken slighly aback at a busy airport on a saturday morning that what appeared to be a controller under tuition (you could hear on transmissions a 2nd controller in the backround barking orders). The whole place just ground to crawl......it's their patch....they notamed it......all I was asking why train in a v v busy time.
Anyway, lets move on .
Regards and Thanks
In relation to what happened....nothing....just was taken slighly aback at a busy airport on a saturday morning that what appeared to be a controller under tuition (you could hear on transmissions a 2nd controller in the backround barking orders). The whole place just ground to crawl......it's their patch....they notamed it......all I was asking why train in a v v busy time.
Anyway, lets move on .
Regards and Thanks