"Make Your Present Heading A Radar Heading"
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"I just don't want the a/c to deviate from its' current 'track' for any reason."
By Lobby
"Locking an A/C on a heading doesn't guarantee it's track will not change."
Ok, if we are being pedantic, I agree with the above but the direction of travel is dictated by the controller not the pilot. The A/C shouldn't turn unexpectedly to pick up a radial or wander off to look at something interesting as they frequently do here. If there is no reason to give a heading and the a/c is pointing roughly where I want it to, then it can continue own nav until I instruct it otherwise. The point is 'continue present heading' and 'Turn L/R heading' etc achieve the same thing, the a/c is under My control .
By Lobby
"Locking an A/C on a heading doesn't guarantee it's track will not change."
Ok, if we are being pedantic, I agree with the above but the direction of travel is dictated by the controller not the pilot. The A/C shouldn't turn unexpectedly to pick up a radial or wander off to look at something interesting as they frequently do here. If there is no reason to give a heading and the a/c is pointing roughly where I want it to, then it can continue own nav until I instruct it otherwise. The point is 'continue present heading' and 'Turn L/R heading' etc achieve the same thing, the a/c is under My control .
Last edited by GunkyTom; 23rd Feb 2008 at 14:17. Reason: didn't make sense
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Vercingetorix -
I don't ask OR want them to report it because I don't care. If I'm going to parallel traffic or cut along the edge of some airspace I will assign a specific heading. I know +/- a few degrees what heading they're on anyway just from looking at the scope.
I don't ask OR want them to report it because I don't care. If I'm going to parallel traffic or cut along the edge of some airspace I will assign a specific heading. I know +/- a few degrees what heading they're on anyway just from looking at the scope.
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#27 By Hotel Tango
I see this has turned into a "I'm a better controller than you are" thread!
Kids
We must be reading different posts.I haven't read this as a willy waving contest. There is no point as there will always be someone with a bigger one than yours!!! I understand the previous posts to be trying to explain why sometimes it is important to know what heading an a/c is on or that it will stay on a heading (regardless of what it is) or when it can continue own nav, which is what the original poster requested.
I see this has turned into a "I'm a better controller than you are" thread!Kids
We must be reading different posts.I haven't read this as a willy waving contest. There is no point as there will always be someone with a bigger one than yours!!! I understand the previous posts to be trying to explain why sometimes it is important to know what heading an a/c is on or that it will stay on a heading (regardless of what it is) or when it can continue own nav, which is what the original poster requested.
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Vercingetorix
The phrase would be "continue present heading" as already stated, the a/c might already be on a track that provides 6/7 miles lateral seperation but a heading would be needed to ensure it. You wouldn't need to know the heading just as long as the a/c was locked on. Ie by continue present heading.
The phrase would be "continue present heading" as already stated, the a/c might already be on a track that provides 6/7 miles lateral seperation but a heading would be needed to ensure it. You wouldn't need to know the heading just as long as the a/c was locked on. Ie by continue present heading.
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back to the original topic
Make Your Present Heading A Radar Heading
this makes complete sense in exactly 1 case:
imagine the pilot is avoiding CBs.
The controller approved "avoidance to the left/right approved" although there is conflicting traffic somewhere in the area.
Once the controller sees the avoidance heading of the pilot, he re-analyizes the potential conflict and finds out that it will be best that the aircraft avoiding CBs stays on its present, self-chosen heading.
Because the present heading of the aircraft wasn't assigned by the controller but picked up freely by the pilot, the only way to clarify the responsibilities and to prevent the pilot from altering his avoidance heading again is by transmitting:
"continue present heading as radar heading", cause avoiding CBs is legally considered "own navigation" of a pilot.
Hope it all makes a bit of sense!
this makes complete sense in exactly 1 case:
imagine the pilot is avoiding CBs.
The controller approved "avoidance to the left/right approved" although there is conflicting traffic somewhere in the area.
Once the controller sees the avoidance heading of the pilot, he re-analyizes the potential conflict and finds out that it will be best that the aircraft avoiding CBs stays on its present, self-chosen heading.
Because the present heading of the aircraft wasn't assigned by the controller but picked up freely by the pilot, the only way to clarify the responsibilities and to prevent the pilot from altering his avoidance heading again is by transmitting:
"continue present heading as radar heading", cause avoiding CBs is legally considered "own navigation" of a pilot.
Hope it all makes a bit of sense!
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the only way to clarify the responsibilities and to prevent the pilot from altering his avoidance heading again is by transmitting:
"continue present heading as radar heading", cause avoiding CBs is legally considered "own navigation" of a pilot.
"continue present heading as radar heading", cause avoiding CBs is legally considered "own navigation" of a pilot.
Dave
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Bill,
It can be down to poor technique or lack of understanding where the SID (for example) stipulates a turn that results in people asking you to 'continue present heading' when you are, in fact, in the turn.
Another reason is because radar is displaying an historic picture and not an up-to-date one, controllers sometimes try to issue the instruction before you commence the turn but miss it by a few seconds.
Either way, the best response from you would be something along the lines of "ABC123 has just commenced a turn, what heading would you like?".
If you can get yourself a visit to TC (or AC) at Swanwick, you might find it worthwhile - and I'm sure the controllers would be happy to hear from you what you consider good and bad technique
It can be down to poor technique or lack of understanding where the SID (for example) stipulates a turn that results in people asking you to 'continue present heading' when you are, in fact, in the turn.
Another reason is because radar is displaying an historic picture and not an up-to-date one, controllers sometimes try to issue the instruction before you commence the turn but miss it by a few seconds.
Either way, the best response from you would be something along the lines of "ABC123 has just commenced a turn, what heading would you like?".
If you can get yourself a visit to TC (or AC) at Swanwick, you might find it worthwhile - and I'm sure the controllers would be happy to hear from you what you consider good and bad technique
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Radio failures. PANS Doc 4444/RAC (1996)
So, it seems to me that the difference between a radar heading and a 'non' radar heading may be 7 minutes.
If IFR-IMC under radar maintain the last assigned speed and level, or minimum flight altitude if higher, for a period of seven minutes following: setting 7600/failure to report position/reaching last assigned level, whichever is the later then proceed iaw filed FPL
If IFR-IMC when being radar vectored or having been directed by ATC to proceed offset using RNAV without a specified limit, proceed in the most direct manner possible to join current FPL route no later than the next significant point, taking into account the applicable minimum flight altitude.
If IFR-IMC when being radar vectored or having been directed by ATC to proceed offset using RNAV without a specified limit, proceed in the most direct manner possible to join current FPL route no later than the next significant point, taking into account the applicable minimum flight altitude.
