Airservices Australia Psychometric Testing
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Australia
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For those who are yet to come to ASA academy thought I would try and give my opinion (not necessarily the right one mind you).
The learning academy is good, it may have ****ty air conditioning and full of constant changes and confusing miss information, but it’s not a bad place to spend a year of your life. Sure we are getting disheartened a bit every time we hear of a fail or supplementary exam. Especially cause we see, as a group, no one is different from anyone else and that it’s so easy to miss one little thing (and that’s all it takes). Thankfully i've found good group support at the academy.
I don’t particularly like some of the comments about the academy that seem to be posted by people who aren’t directly connected in any way to it. My perspective....
The recruitment process is long and with very little encouragement to continue. I can imagine many people with more than one job offer going for the other due to the lack of communication in the months waiting to hear about the next phase or what course you’re on if successfully on the merit list. Good luck.
With the original material sent out, it’s not obvious how much they want you to do. Basically as much as you can with the time you have. I only got the material when I got down to the Melb temporary accommodation 1 week before the course started. There is a test the first week but it’s not a huge thing just to set you on the right track (note: there are lots and lots of test). If you have nothing to do in the weeks prior to the course it will help you a lot to read as much of the ARM as possible, otherwise look at the sections referenced in the selected questions.
The first theory block is basiacally sitting in the same chair everyday listening, so be ready for it. Teaching styles of the instructors vary immensely . In the end you get all the material necessary though (not necessarily in the best method) but easy enough for most. You end up going through subjects so quickly you pretty much have finished it before it’s even started, not much time for cementing ideas. I’m still unsure about lines like “we want everyone to pass” as it seems to be handed out like candy. All I know is everyone in the academy works damn hard and there are a lot of 100% in exams flying around (not me... I’m not that smart).
Unfortunately the way the college works you don’t even get to ‘pretend’ to be an air traffic controller until months into the course. Doesn’t really help connect the theory with anything (in my perspective) and also made it hard for us to know if we even suited the job until we finally got to put a headset on.
Thankfully I really do feel at this stage, if you really want to be an air traffic controller and you work hard, getting through the academy it’s achievable. Although there are many hurdles to jump over, it takes a lot of self confidence and the ability to just keep going. If you’re indecisive... think hard because the learning curve continues to rise.
The learning academy is good, it may have ****ty air conditioning and full of constant changes and confusing miss information, but it’s not a bad place to spend a year of your life. Sure we are getting disheartened a bit every time we hear of a fail or supplementary exam. Especially cause we see, as a group, no one is different from anyone else and that it’s so easy to miss one little thing (and that’s all it takes). Thankfully i've found good group support at the academy.
I don’t particularly like some of the comments about the academy that seem to be posted by people who aren’t directly connected in any way to it. My perspective....
The recruitment process is long and with very little encouragement to continue. I can imagine many people with more than one job offer going for the other due to the lack of communication in the months waiting to hear about the next phase or what course you’re on if successfully on the merit list. Good luck.
With the original material sent out, it’s not obvious how much they want you to do. Basically as much as you can with the time you have. I only got the material when I got down to the Melb temporary accommodation 1 week before the course started. There is a test the first week but it’s not a huge thing just to set you on the right track (note: there are lots and lots of test). If you have nothing to do in the weeks prior to the course it will help you a lot to read as much of the ARM as possible, otherwise look at the sections referenced in the selected questions.
The first theory block is basiacally sitting in the same chair everyday listening, so be ready for it. Teaching styles of the instructors vary immensely . In the end you get all the material necessary though (not necessarily in the best method) but easy enough for most. You end up going through subjects so quickly you pretty much have finished it before it’s even started, not much time for cementing ideas. I’m still unsure about lines like “we want everyone to pass” as it seems to be handed out like candy. All I know is everyone in the academy works damn hard and there are a lot of 100% in exams flying around (not me... I’m not that smart).
Unfortunately the way the college works you don’t even get to ‘pretend’ to be an air traffic controller until months into the course. Doesn’t really help connect the theory with anything (in my perspective) and also made it hard for us to know if we even suited the job until we finally got to put a headset on.
Thankfully I really do feel at this stage, if you really want to be an air traffic controller and you work hard, getting through the academy it’s achievable. Although there are many hurdles to jump over, it takes a lot of self confidence and the ability to just keep going. If you’re indecisive... think hard because the learning curve continues to rise.
Join Date: Jan 2009
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Sept Course
For those of you waiting on an offer for the Sept course... it shouldn't be too long until you get a call. (If top of the Merit List)
2 people I know have been offered a spot. Monday 13th Sept If I recall correctly !!
Good Luck !!
2 people I know have been offered a spot. Monday 13th Sept If I recall correctly !!
Good Luck !!
Join Date: Apr 2010
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me too skiddy. A question for those in the know. How does leave work while on the course. Say if you had an important wedding to attend. Is this possible or are there set dates that you have to take?
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How does leave work while on the course. Say if you had an important wedding to attend. Is this possible or are there set dates that you have to take?
caveman, as Mike says you don't get to choose. The course is run to a fixed schedule and anything you miss (through illness for instance) is up to you to catch up on. Fine for the odd day but any more and you'll never make it, particularly in the sim as there is very limited scope for extra runs.
Wow. I suggest that PPRUNE is not the place to learn about ATC or ATC'ers. The course is not really any different to any other workplace. There isn't the scope to pause everyone's training to head off overseas for a week. If you miss a day, fine you can catch that up. Probably even 2 or 3. A week or more you will have a lot to catch up on. Particularly if you are in the Sim phase, as you can't study that at home.
Most of the college instructor were ATC at one point. Most of the managers you will encounter there were not. I believe the lady in charge of the college is from NAB. Clearly not ex ATC.
As to whether lots of people can do the job, I don't know. The 11 on my course all go through and all eventually got rated. Other courses running concurrently only had pass rates in the vicinity of 50%.
As to work life balance, if you chose not to do overtime you can, but the company will want an reason based on our agreement.
Most of the college instructor were ATC at one point. Most of the managers you will encounter there were not. I believe the lady in charge of the college is from NAB. Clearly not ex ATC.
As to whether lots of people can do the job, I don't know. The 11 on my course all go through and all eventually got rated. Other courses running concurrently only had pass rates in the vicinity of 50%.
As to work life balance, if you chose not to do overtime you can, but the company will want an reason based on our agreement.
Blippy, get a grip. Would you care to nominate other jobs that allow you to take leave whenever you want? The rest of the course won't just sit around waiting for you to return.
Have you considered that the "attitude" that relatively few people can do ATC is derived from decades of experience & not just the last few years? Certainly the starting pay & wait doesn't help with attracting the best.
As Awol says most managers are just that, managers without ATC experience. And you can't just waltz in & use the sim whenever you want, if you miss a sim session it's gone - resources are finite.
If you miss an exam at uni you get to sit the sup exam - they don't hold another session especially for you. If you miss a lecture, tutorial, lab session, field trip, etc. they don't run it again especially for you. You make it up as best you can.
"Living a delusion"? Oh dear..... The fact is unless you apply a separation standard fully it's no standard at all. 90% of a standard means you have no standard & have failed to separate. Hence the 100% requirement. You're dealing with 100s of lives. Get it wrong & you put those lives at risk. You don't have time to check through the books every time you apply a standard so you need to know the rules you're applying 100%.
That's the job. Take it or leave it. We don't pretend to be perfect & all make mistakes, but if you aim to do things 100% correctly all the time you're more likely to achieve it.
Have you considered that the "attitude" that relatively few people can do ATC is derived from decades of experience & not just the last few years? Certainly the starting pay & wait doesn't help with attracting the best.
As Awol says most managers are just that, managers without ATC experience. And you can't just waltz in & use the sim whenever you want, if you miss a sim session it's gone - resources are finite.
If you miss an exam at uni you get to sit the sup exam - they don't hold another session especially for you. If you miss a lecture, tutorial, lab session, field trip, etc. they don't run it again especially for you. You make it up as best you can.
"Living a delusion"? Oh dear..... The fact is unless you apply a separation standard fully it's no standard at all. 90% of a standard means you have no standard & have failed to separate. Hence the 100% requirement. You're dealing with 100s of lives. Get it wrong & you put those lives at risk. You don't have time to check through the books every time you apply a standard so you need to know the rules you're applying 100%.
That's the job. Take it or leave it. We don't pretend to be perfect & all make mistakes, but if you aim to do things 100% correctly all the time you're more likely to achieve it.
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Unfortunately the way the college works you don’t even get to ‘pretend’ to be an air traffic controller until months into the course. Doesn’t really help connect the theory with anything (in my perspective) and also made it hard for us to know if we even suited the job until we finally got to put a headset on.
.Blippy - if you think 12 to 18 months hanging round waiting and then a year in the college, and not being able to take a week off whenever you want is too big a sacrifice, may I politely suggest you are not yet ready to enter the workforce, let alone ATC.
I don't think everyone can do ATC, but I don't think its a small % either. What is a small % is the people who can do it, and who want to. The responsibility and shift work puts some people off, lots of people who could do it can do other things they prefer, and it never even crosses the minds of many.
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Blippy
Which ATC's are you talking about here?
Having read some of your previous posts, it is obvious you are not an actual ATC ( Air Traffic Controller ) i.e. someone who actually plugs in 24/7/365 and talks to aircraft.
From your view, on the periphery, enlighten me how 'ATC are responsible' for the current staff shortages.
Last EBA Civilair ( ATC Association ) asked for an increase from $35 K to $52K to attract better applicants to the profession. The newspapers, were ably fed this line and screamed that ATCs were asking for a 60+% increase in pay.
The fact of the matter was that Civilair was acknowledging that people were 'unwilling/unable to give up two years of their lives' to take a paydrop and maybe not reach the bar. No actual ATC, paying for their Civilair membership, was going to get a 60% payrise but were keen to get a higher calibre of new entrant to apply. Hopefully we would get an alleviation of the staff shortages somewhere down the track.
Here we are 6+ years on, and desperately short of controllers, and you have the temerity to say it is the ATCs fault.
And I'm sure you are wrong. When people are on contracts with KPIs something has to give. The target the individual is aiming for may well be at odds with what the organisation is tasked with doing. The politics of 'resource hogging' i.e. one area keeping staff so that they can continue with projects, whilst another area is desperate for operational controllers has been going on for years.
Sad to say I think ATC's have only themselves to blame for there not being enough people and for them feeling over worked.
Having read some of your previous posts, it is obvious you are not an actual ATC ( Air Traffic Controller ) i.e. someone who actually plugs in 24/7/365 and talks to aircraft.
From your view, on the periphery, enlighten me how 'ATC are responsible' for the current staff shortages.
I suspect that there are actually many more who are able to do the job, it's just that they are unwilling/unable to give up two years of their lives to do so. So it's no wonder there are so few ATC's around at the moment.
The fact of the matter was that Civilair was acknowledging that people were 'unwilling/unable to give up two years of their lives' to take a paydrop and maybe not reach the bar. No actual ATC, paying for their Civilair membership, was going to get a 60% payrise but were keen to get a higher calibre of new entrant to apply. Hopefully we would get an alleviation of the staff shortages somewhere down the track.
Here we are 6+ years on, and desperately short of controllers, and you have the temerity to say it is the ATCs fault.
After all, I'm sure lots of those who run the organisation (the college, checkies, managers etc.) were all ATC's at some point... so it's not like ATC's and ASA are completely different creatures.
Last edited by max1; 5th Jul 2010 at 04:12.
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G'day all,
This one paragraph tells all that is wrong with ATC training, not just Airservices Academy. People like you spend years trying for selection (while the world and other careers pass by) then, once selected, face very high-pressure training - all without any real indication that you actually have the ability to do the job. Psychometric Testing goes part of the way (if you get to that stage), but it doesn't test for actual ATC skills. Once on course the pressure really mounts, because there is a time limit - you can't go and take extra lessons and re-sit exams like people training for any other career can. And, the peer pressure (not wanting to be the one that falls) is all-consuming. Which is why there is a wide variation in success rate between courses that have been selected by the same testing process. Once someone fails the jitters really set in and the big snowball is waiting to escape.
All of this I was deeply exposed to during my years as an instructor at Airservices College, as it was called then. I saw so many young people go through the fires of hell, just to get through training. The stress of it is far worse than that of actual ATC. I retired for the one purpose of doing something about the flawed selection and training process. Computers have improved dramatically in recent years and PC-based practical training and simulation are now readily available, and at minimal cost compared to the formal set-up.
This is a forum and I am not out to advertise here, but that quote prompted me to contribute to the thread. Can I just suggest you do a Google and YouTube search for ATCX.
I can empathise with what you are all going through, but be assured there is no career like ATC, just keep at it and don't let anyone or anything stand in your way.
Rgds
Unfortunately the way the college works you don’t even get to ‘pretend’ to be an air traffic controller until months into the course. Doesn’t really help connect the theory with anything (in my perspective) and also made it hard for us to know if we even suited the job until we finally got to put a headset on.
All of this I was deeply exposed to during my years as an instructor at Airservices College, as it was called then. I saw so many young people go through the fires of hell, just to get through training. The stress of it is far worse than that of actual ATC. I retired for the one purpose of doing something about the flawed selection and training process. Computers have improved dramatically in recent years and PC-based practical training and simulation are now readily available, and at minimal cost compared to the formal set-up.
This is a forum and I am not out to advertise here, but that quote prompted me to contribute to the thread. Can I just suggest you do a Google and YouTube search for ATCX.
I can empathise with what you are all going through, but be assured there is no career like ATC, just keep at it and don't let anyone or anything stand in your way.
Rgds
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For example, in sample video 14 (whirlpool), the CTA steps are shown as the level that can be assigned rather than the base of CTA.
I found it unusual at first, but once you know the airspace, it's a non-issue.
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NB,
I can't reply as I would like to here because it would sound like a commercial for VV so look for a PM from me. 5miles is dead right in what he says about that issue though.
Microbee ...... hmmmm .... memories.
CLAMES
I can't reply as I would like to here because it would sound like a commercial for VV so look for a PM from me. 5miles is dead right in what he says about that issue though.
Microbee ...... hmmmm .... memories.
CLAMES
I haven't read this whole thread, so this may have been suggested before ...
Could ASA not implement an "ATC Screening" procedure in the early stages. I know they have their psychometric testing ... but why not something like RAAF "Flight Screening" ?
It could be along the lines of the, I think it's called, "ATC Awareness Program" they run for staff ... a 4 day crash course in ATC in the SIM.
Surely that would weed out those who:
A chance for the candidates to see what it's really like and a chance for ASA to see what the candidates learning ability is like.
Yes, extra time and cost ... but perhaps a trial might show that the successfully selected candidates have a much higher final pass rate
I'm sure the RAAF has found that to be true ... otherwise they wouldn't be wasting their money on it.
Could ASA not implement an "ATC Screening" procedure in the early stages. I know they have their psychometric testing ... but why not something like RAAF "Flight Screening" ?
It could be along the lines of the, I think it's called, "ATC Awareness Program" they run for staff ... a 4 day crash course in ATC in the SIM.
Surely that would weed out those who:
- Don't have the aptitude
- Don't have the interest
A chance for the candidates to see what it's really like and a chance for ASA to see what the candidates learning ability is like.
Yes, extra time and cost ... but perhaps a trial might show that the successfully selected candidates have a much higher final pass rate
I'm sure the RAAF has found that to be true ... otherwise they wouldn't be wasting their money on it.
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Also been booked in for Nov 1 - course of 12 - 6 Melb enroute and 6 Bris enroute ... I am one of the Brisbane ones ... always assuming we skip nicely through the medical of course 