Annoying RT
More than just an ATCO
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Up someone's nose
Age: 75
Posts: 1,768
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
PH-SCP In previous years he often had me wishing for AG capability on the Warrior. When he heard that I worked for Eurocontrol he tried to make my life hell. He also did, IIRC, the RT exam at Schiphol back then. Despite 20 years as Controller and Pilot he gave me 71% on the practical. ""Mr. More, an aviation professional would use "Foxtrot" not "Fox"", and that the complicated and garbled communications about gliding activity miles off my track was not read back word for word,
To me it was water off a duck's back. Must be something to do with sharing a flat with the Creeganator in the past
To me it was water off a duck's back. Must be something to do with sharing a flat with the Creeganator in the past
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: heathrow
Posts: 990
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
However, when ATCO is short of his breath, "continue approach" is the first thing to omit.
PPRuNe supporter
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 1,677
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Good point White Knight, although I am a short hauler, the long haul guys are in a different country every flight, might not have been there for quite some time. Thanks to ATC for their input, will try to do better. 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Maastricht, Netherlands
Age: 61
Posts: 86
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm afraid I totally disagree. Saying "Continue Approach" supplies just as much situational awareness to other crews on the frequency as saying "Continue to Breath". Other crews are totally clueless about the position of this particular aircraft other than it's "out there somewhere". If you want to say something meaningfull that also increases situational awaressness fot other crews, say "report passing xxx(fix) or xxx (dme) and include a landing number, that way other crews know that the aircraft hasn't passed that particular fix yet. If you can't issue a landing clearance yet, don't say "continue approach" but say "expect landing clearance on short final". Keep the pilot in the picture and don't say things that are obvious. The pilot will continue his approach until otherwise instructed, you don't have to tell him that !!
Quote:
When switching from Approach to Tower, I often hear the phrase "Roger Papa Charlie Papa, continue approach". What a load of ole crap and waste of effort and breath that is. Unless flying a helo, there's not much else I can do buddy !! In my opinion the "continue approach"-instruction is just a way of buying time but it makes no sense at all.
Saying "continue approach" contribute to situation awareness of other crews on the frequency. Also, surface wind could be stated at this time to make forthcoming landing clearance shorter. However, when ATCO is short of his breath, "continue approach" is the first thing to omit.
Quote:
When switching from Approach to Tower, I often hear the phrase "Roger Papa Charlie Papa, continue approach". What a load of ole crap and waste of effort and breath that is. Unless flying a helo, there's not much else I can do buddy !! In my opinion the "continue approach"-instruction is just a way of buying time but it makes no sense at all.
Saying "continue approach" contribute to situation awareness of other crews on the frequency. Also, surface wind could be stated at this time to make forthcoming landing clearance shorter. However, when ATCO is short of his breath, "continue approach" is the first thing to omit.
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Europe
Posts: 332
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"Expect landing clearance on short final" makes no sense neither. They expect it sooner or later anyway.
The problem is you need to say something when they check in, coz they expect you to. Telling them winds while they're on 10 miles is quite often irrelevent. Number in sequence is also not very useful, unless you tell them they're number 1 and can relax a bit.
So what I prefer to do is either to inform how many departures they can expect before their landing (same/crossing rwy), or a simple "good morning/afternoon/evening".
ATCo saying "continue approach" is only half of the problem, the other half is you read it back
The problem is you need to say something when they check in, coz they expect you to. Telling them winds while they're on 10 miles is quite often irrelevent. Number in sequence is also not very useful, unless you tell them they're number 1 and can relax a bit.
So what I prefer to do is either to inform how many departures they can expect before their landing (same/crossing rwy), or a simple "good morning/afternoon/evening".
ATCo saying "continue approach" is only half of the problem, the other half is you read it back
In my opinion the "continue approach"-instruction is just a way of buying time but it makes no sense at all.
The purpose is to emphasise that you do NOT yet have landing clearance - but without mentioning the latter words and having them misheard.
The purpose is to emphasise that you do NOT yet have landing clearance - but without mentioning the latter words and having them misheard.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: England
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My pet hate is with a particularly well known northern airfield, and I apologise if this is a specific local procedure of which I am not aware.
It goes as follows,
XXXXXXXXXX Delivery, XXX123, Boeing XXX, Stand XXX with Information A, QNH1013, Request clearance to XXY.
XXX123 Cleared to XYZ, NOKIN1Y, Squawk 1234, Information is Alpha, QNH1013.
Cleared to XYZ, NOKIN1Y, Squawk 1234, Information Alpha, QNH1013
My point being, most ATCO's seem to read back to you the ATIS code and QNH in the clearance, which, according to my book means I am obliged to read back the QNH and as good airmanship if nothing else, readback the ATIS code.
Incidentally, this is not limited to delivery and happens frequently on initial call with Radar too when passing ATIS code.
Not entirely R/T related but don't get me started on speed restrictions not being lifted, "300kts untill advised". When will that be then, arrival on stand?
Sorry... Rant Over...
It goes as follows,
XXXXXXXXXX Delivery, XXX123, Boeing XXX, Stand XXX with Information A, QNH1013, Request clearance to XXY.
XXX123 Cleared to XYZ, NOKIN1Y, Squawk 1234, Information is Alpha, QNH1013.
Cleared to XYZ, NOKIN1Y, Squawk 1234, Information Alpha, QNH1013
My point being, most ATCO's seem to read back to you the ATIS code and QNH in the clearance, which, according to my book means I am obliged to read back the QNH and as good airmanship if nothing else, readback the ATIS code.
Incidentally, this is not limited to delivery and happens frequently on initial call with Radar too when passing ATIS code.
Not entirely R/T related but don't get me started on speed restrictions not being lifted, "300kts untill advised". When will that be then, arrival on stand?
Sorry... Rant Over...
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Scotland
Posts: 262
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
tp555
that may be due to a) habit, the delivery controller is reading the same standard sentence many times per hour and even if he's heard the pilot report the current ATIS, he just can't help it slipping out again!
or b) he's confirming that the information IS Alpha and the QNH IS indeed 1007.
A question of emphasis, maybe; but when a pilot reports that they've got the current ATIS, I always confirm that it is indeed still current. The damn things change so often!
No need to mention the QNH if the pilot's read it out correctly once, although I am also guilty of blurting it out again inadvertantly!
that may be due to a) habit, the delivery controller is reading the same standard sentence many times per hour and even if he's heard the pilot report the current ATIS, he just can't help it slipping out again!
or b) he's confirming that the information IS Alpha and the QNH IS indeed 1007.
A question of emphasis, maybe; but when a pilot reports that they've got the current ATIS, I always confirm that it is indeed still current. The damn things change so often!
No need to mention the QNH if the pilot's read it out correctly once, although I am also guilty of blurting it out again inadvertantly!
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Europe
Posts: 332
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The truth is that thrown away from reading your newspaper you can barely catch who's calling, if you're lucky you will even notice the stand he's given. ATIS - you're asking for too much
Join Date: May 2001
Location: london,england
Age: 65
Posts: 177
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
multitasking on landing
WHY OH WHY OH WHY do some ATC personages insist on talking to us when the main wheels are 0.1mm from the runway...
Just as the PF is wrestling the flying device to the runway and the PNF is watching, calling speeds, checking the reversers are out etc etc etc - some helpful ATC guy/girl will go ahead with the full "landed at XXXX, vacate next left at XX then hold at X, call ground on XXX.XXX and was there any turbulence/windshear on finals"???
P L E A S E PLEASE please
wait until we've got it on the ground and can talk to you before going ahead...having been a controller in a former life, it's like someone asking if you want tea just as you're using the "surface wind is XXX at XX knots, runway XX you're cleared to land" ploy to stretch a small gap into a larger one...Thank you muchly
Just as the PF is wrestling the flying device to the runway and the PNF is watching, calling speeds, checking the reversers are out etc etc etc - some helpful ATC guy/girl will go ahead with the full "landed at XXXX, vacate next left at XX then hold at X, call ground on XXX.XXX and was there any turbulence/windshear on finals"???
P L E A S E PLEASE please
wait until we've got it on the ground and can talk to you before going ahead...having been a controller in a former life, it's like someone asking if you want tea just as you're using the "surface wind is XXX at XX knots, runway XX you're cleared to land" ploy to stretch a small gap into a larger one...Thank you muchly
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Berkshire, UK
Age: 79
Posts: 8,268
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
727 exec.. look at my posting #36. ATCOs are trained not to talk to pilots at critical times during take-off and landing except in an emergency. But, as I pointed out, some pilots are more than capable of talking to ATC at those times. The way you talk, anyone would think pilots are busy!!!
Join Date: May 2001
Location: london,england
Age: 65
Posts: 177
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Busy?? we've got to try and get the plane level enough for the first cup of tea after departure!!
I did have a look at #36, and I've never had an issue at your venerable airport, but some others...and yes, we're guilty too.
I once had a visit up the old tower at LL land - it was great!! Something us pilots should do more often at their local airport - always found choccy biccies went down well as a visiting gift, and we've had controllers visit us when they realised that there was always pizza before departure...
I did have a look at #36, and I've never had an issue at your venerable airport, but some others...and yes, we're guilty too.
I once had a visit up the old tower at LL land - it was great!! Something us pilots should do more often at their local airport - always found choccy biccies went down well as a visiting gift, and we've had controllers visit us when they realised that there was always pizza before departure...
More than just an ATCO
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Up someone's nose
Age: 75
Posts: 1,768
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Shouldn`t say "on" anyway....it`s not "on" anything.
Should be "Contact agency, frequency"
Should be "Contact agency, frequency"
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Where the family is
Posts: 282
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ANNOYING R/T
Some interesting ones from south of the equator:
From the pilots side they report approaching their cleared flight level.In general they are also approaching traffic 1000ft above or below.Contrary to popular belief the radar actually does work in certain third world countries.
From the ATC side certain controllers will request a pilot to reduce speed to 180kts ' when comfortable'
, what happens if that is only at the outer marker?
Some interesting ones from south of the equator:
From the pilots side they report approaching their cleared flight level.In general they are also approaching traffic 1000ft above or below.Contrary to popular belief the radar actually does work in certain third world countries.
From the ATC side certain controllers will request a pilot to reduce speed to 180kts ' when comfortable'
, what happens if that is only at the outer marker?
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: uk
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
continue approach, can be useful sometimes, apart from the points made above it may be continue approach you are number 4, so helps create a better situational awareness, just the same as a pilot reporting on frequency and his range from touchdown, most units have a ATM so know how many miles you are, but the other aircraft dont, aircraft at the hold can become aware of the likely hood of getting a line up clearance, someone landing ahead be more aware of need to vacate quicker etc
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: uk
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I once had a visit up the old tower at LL land - it was great!! Something us pilots should do more often at their local airport - always found choccy biccies went down well as a visiting gift, and we've had controllers visit us when they realised that there was always pizza before departure...
ys pizza before departure...