A Little Help for a Future Controller
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A Little Help for a Future Controller
Morning All,
I am 18 and half way through my application for the RAF to become an Air Traffic Control Assistant.
Currently, the RAF are "fast-tracking" Assistants to Sgt (and therefore Controller) in 3-5 Years.
If there is any advise you can give me, stories to tell, things to think about, for my Interviews, Aptitude Test, Basic Training, ATC Training or indeed life in a Control Tower, then they would be much appreciated.
Thanks,
GolfIndiaTango
I am 18 and half way through my application for the RAF to become an Air Traffic Control Assistant.
Currently, the RAF are "fast-tracking" Assistants to Sgt (and therefore Controller) in 3-5 Years.
If there is any advise you can give me, stories to tell, things to think about, for my Interviews, Aptitude Test, Basic Training, ATC Training or indeed life in a Control Tower, then they would be much appreciated.
Thanks,
GolfIndiaTango
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Learn to be a kiss a$$. Keep your mouth shut unless spoken to. Never disagree with your "superiors" even if you know they're wrong and you're right. Remember there's more to it than being good at the job - you have to be "one of the lads" socially too. (My experience is that's more important - I had some real w@nkers promoted over me and then fail Controllers courses). Never express an opinion - "yes sir, no sir, 3 bags full sir" is the order of the day.
Do the above and you'll find the becoming a Controller in the military has more to do with having a face that fits and less to do with having any controlling ability. (Though very embarrassing when you fail to validate as happened to one of my contemporaries.)
I had the same hopes as you at your age - if I had my time again I'd be banging on NATS door now rather than becoming a civil ATCO later.
Do the above and you'll find the becoming a Controller in the military has more to do with having a face that fits and less to do with having any controlling ability. (Though very embarrassing when you fail to validate as happened to one of my contemporaries.)
I had the same hopes as you at your age - if I had my time again I'd be banging on NATS door now rather than becoming a civil ATCO later.
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NATS over RAF
So you wouldn't have joined up?
I'm in the Cadets and love every second of the RAF and militasry lifestyle!
I understand what you are saying, but doesn't the RAF lifestyle stand for anything? (I may just be being naive about it all, I'm only young!)
Thanks for your brilliant advise though (every little helps!) , I have been looking at NATS more and more, recently!
GolfIndiaTango
I'm in the Cadets and love every second of the RAF and militasry lifestyle!
I understand what you are saying, but doesn't the RAF lifestyle stand for anything? (I may just be being naive about it all, I'm only young!)
Thanks for your brilliant advise though (every little helps!) , I have been looking at NATS more and more, recently!
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I don't know what it's like in the RAF, but CM could also be describing any number of other organisations and companies.
It all depends how you take it, whether you get on with your own job and have fun, or let it get to you and make you bitter.
If you look hard enough, you can find examples of what CM talks about all over the place. Conversely, if you don't feel inclined to look for it, you won't care because you'll be having fun and enjoying doing a job you enjoy.
It all depends how you take it, whether you get on with your own job and have fun, or let it get to you and make you bitter.
If you look hard enough, you can find examples of what CM talks about all over the place. Conversely, if you don't feel inclined to look for it, you won't care because you'll be having fun and enjoying doing a job you enjoy.
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A bit about me
Thank you,
I have chosen ATC as I love aviation.
Because i had Asthma as a child I can't fly for the RAF, however, I still love being in the thick of things and enjoy the responibilty and professionalism that comes with the job.
I, like everyone, find it annoying when my superiors insist on being right, despite being wrong, but that comes with any job. I shouldn't and won't let that get me down, a quick bi*ching session with the other half behind closed doors will sort out those rough feelings!
Above everything, I would be doing what I love, and making my airspace a safer place!
Has anyone done the Controller's or Assistant's course at Shawbury, or the Interviews at Cranwell? What am I to expect?
GolfIndiaTango
I have chosen ATC as I love aviation.
Because i had Asthma as a child I can't fly for the RAF, however, I still love being in the thick of things and enjoy the responibilty and professionalism that comes with the job.
I, like everyone, find it annoying when my superiors insist on being right, despite being wrong, but that comes with any job. I shouldn't and won't let that get me down, a quick bi*ching session with the other half behind closed doors will sort out those rough feelings!
Above everything, I would be doing what I love, and making my airspace a safer place!
Has anyone done the Controller's or Assistant's course at Shawbury, or the Interviews at Cranwell? What am I to expect?
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BDiONU & Gonzo
The funny thing is - I'm not bitter. That entails a level of emotion and to be honest I'm extremely dispassionate about such things. It is a personal view about my perceptions of life in the RAF after 15 years in TG9 (To be fair those views only apply to the first 12 years, the last 3 I had nothing to do with the trade / branch and my observations about those are a lot better). The past is the past - only the future counts.
In G I T's post I see myself 28 years ago, (forces family and upbringing, cadets, wanted to fly but couldn't - specs wearer in my case, love aviation etc - could be identical) and if I had my time again I would seriously re-consider my career options. Especially when you bring the situation into the modern day (overstretch, limited resources, instability of life outside the service due to service pressures).
If he goes with the career choice therefore the advice still stands - because it is advice, nothing more.
The funny thing is - I'm not bitter. That entails a level of emotion and to be honest I'm extremely dispassionate about such things. It is a personal view about my perceptions of life in the RAF after 15 years in TG9 (To be fair those views only apply to the first 12 years, the last 3 I had nothing to do with the trade / branch and my observations about those are a lot better). The past is the past - only the future counts.
In G I T's post I see myself 28 years ago, (forces family and upbringing, cadets, wanted to fly but couldn't - specs wearer in my case, love aviation etc - could be identical) and if I had my time again I would seriously re-consider my career options. Especially when you bring the situation into the modern day (overstretch, limited resources, instability of life outside the service due to service pressures).
If he goes with the career choice therefore the advice still stands - because it is advice, nothing more.
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G I T,
Good for you for trying to enter a worthwhile profession-whether RAF or Civilian. There are merits to both (I am a NATS controller who used to be Naval Aircrew) and ultimately only you can decide which will suit you best.
My tuppence for what its worth:
Try applying to NATS as well as the RAF, this will give you options should one application not go as planned.
Go and visit your nearest NATS unit (PM me and I will try and identify one for you) for a look-see at the civilian side of things.
As you love aviation, have you considered becoming an airline pilot? As i understand it-and I stand to be corrected by others with more experience than me-civilian regulations tend to be more sensible with their approach to asthma sufferers than the military.
Good luck for the future.
CTF
Good for you for trying to enter a worthwhile profession-whether RAF or Civilian. There are merits to both (I am a NATS controller who used to be Naval Aircrew) and ultimately only you can decide which will suit you best.
My tuppence for what its worth:
Try applying to NATS as well as the RAF, this will give you options should one application not go as planned.
Go and visit your nearest NATS unit (PM me and I will try and identify one for you) for a look-see at the civilian side of things.
As you love aviation, have you considered becoming an airline pilot? As i understand it-and I stand to be corrected by others with more experience than me-civilian regulations tend to be more sensible with their approach to asthma sufferers than the military.
Good luck for the future.
CTF
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I'm also on the 8th, morning session in London. Pretty excited about it all tbh. Gonna be a stretch though, its my first week back at Uni that week and I have lectures at 3, so I'm gonna have to make a quick dash at the end to get back here in time.
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CM wrote:
Could read equally well for NATS, IF you get the wrong mentors (I say this not through experience, but having witnessed some of the cliques etc that are formed on watches within NATS). As Gonzo states, what CM says stands good stead in many professions, if you meet the wrong people.... the first 5 sentences of his rant can be transfered directly to NATS, and can actually help with promotion onto the first rung of management!
His penultimate sentence displays only his contempt for some people that he himself thought he was better than - a touch of bitterness there perhaps?
His final sentence in that paragraph can again be transferred straight over to NATS, but you may omit the "Sir"!
As the Little Welsh Looker (no, I am not saying I find ClearToFire attractive) states, look to other avenues as well... don't dismiss NATS even at your age, unless you want a bit of travel and adventure before trying for a more sedentary life in NATS later on.
Remember if succesful in the RAF, it does not neccesarily mean that you will be able to transfer to a civil controlling career when you want to have a bit more stable lifestyle in your later years - you will still have to do the college courses, and the older you get the harder it can be.
Good Luck with whatever you choose, remember that everyone is entitled to their opinion on these forums, just take any extreme opinions (either for or against the RAF option) with a pinch of salt.
Whilst I would not encourage you to take CMs writing as an accurate description of the way the RAF works, similarly I would not believe someone who claimed that life in the forces was totally perfect. Having seen both sides, I can assure you that each has is good and bad points.
Learn to be a kiss a$$. Keep your mouth shut unless spoken to. Never disagree with your "superiors" even if you know they're wrong and you're right. Remember there's more to it than being good at the job - you have to be "one of the lads" socially too. (My experience is that's more important - I had some real w@nkers promoted over me and then fail Controllers courses). Never express an opinion - "yes sir, no sir, 3 bags full sir" is the order of the day.
His penultimate sentence displays only his contempt for some people that he himself thought he was better than - a touch of bitterness there perhaps?
His final sentence in that paragraph can again be transferred straight over to NATS, but you may omit the "Sir"!
As the Little Welsh Looker (no, I am not saying I find ClearToFire attractive) states, look to other avenues as well... don't dismiss NATS even at your age, unless you want a bit of travel and adventure before trying for a more sedentary life in NATS later on.
Remember if succesful in the RAF, it does not neccesarily mean that you will be able to transfer to a civil controlling career when you want to have a bit more stable lifestyle in your later years - you will still have to do the college courses, and the older you get the harder it can be.
Good Luck with whatever you choose, remember that everyone is entitled to their opinion on these forums, just take any extreme opinions (either for or against the RAF option) with a pinch of salt.
Whilst I would not encourage you to take CMs writing as an accurate description of the way the RAF works, similarly I would not believe someone who claimed that life in the forces was totally perfect. Having seen both sides, I can assure you that each has is good and bad points.
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Originally Posted by anotherthing
His penultimate sentence displays only his contempt for some people that he himself thought he was better than - a touch of bitterness there perhaps?
Bitterness - again, as I said before, none. I'm doing what I want, where I want, with the lifestyle and income I want, which I would never have been able to enjoy had I remained in the services. I've got nothing to be bitter about. I still have to pinch myself occasionally to prove my life now isn't a dream and I won't wake up back in a blue uniform.
But for the rest of your post - wise words. Yes, you'll always get extremes of experience and comment. Take them all, compare them all and make your mind up. We're all different, all want different things from life. I've been able to realise all my ambitions, I hope G I T does the same in whatever side of the coin he goes into. Air Traffic is still fun, and hopefully will stay that way throughout his career.
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RAF then civil is the way ahead!!
Had a brilliant time in light blue and when it came to leave, I did my civil licences. Start in the military - finish in civil. How else are you going to get so many free skiing holidays (Thanks tax payers) with a load of like-minded people!!
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"I am 18 and half way through my application for the RAF to become an Air Traffic Control Assistant.
Currently, the RAF are "fast-tracking" Assistants to Sgt (and therefore Controller) in 3-5 Years."
They were saying the same in 1989 when I joined up, in reality it didn't happen that often, maybe it does now, but I've been out for 8 years now so can't be sure. I now work for NATS as a controller. You'll gain lots of experiance, more than most current civil ATCOs who think they know everything but they don't, but then you will still have things to learn (as does everyone including the ones who have been doing it for years).
The RAF is a funny place to work. As CM said, faces have to fit (as it does with NATS), you might be the best in the RAF/company but if your mentors/bosses don't like you or if you don't go out for a drink every now and again you're stuffed. In fact being the best could mean you're stuffed coz some out there don't like you to be better than them. One of the weirdest things that used to happen in the RAF was that you tended to get promoted to a controller if you worked in Ops, but not if you worked in the tower (they were the same branch then). This was because your annual write ups were done by pilots who didn't really know you and couldn't be arsed to do a proper report, where as in the tower it was done by the people you worked with.
Anyhow good luck with it, whatever you do you seem to love the job and not care how you get to do your dream
Currently, the RAF are "fast-tracking" Assistants to Sgt (and therefore Controller) in 3-5 Years."
They were saying the same in 1989 when I joined up, in reality it didn't happen that often, maybe it does now, but I've been out for 8 years now so can't be sure. I now work for NATS as a controller. You'll gain lots of experiance, more than most current civil ATCOs who think they know everything but they don't, but then you will still have things to learn (as does everyone including the ones who have been doing it for years).
The RAF is a funny place to work. As CM said, faces have to fit (as it does with NATS), you might be the best in the RAF/company but if your mentors/bosses don't like you or if you don't go out for a drink every now and again you're stuffed. In fact being the best could mean you're stuffed coz some out there don't like you to be better than them. One of the weirdest things that used to happen in the RAF was that you tended to get promoted to a controller if you worked in Ops, but not if you worked in the tower (they were the same branch then). This was because your annual write ups were done by pilots who didn't really know you and couldn't be arsed to do a proper report, where as in the tower it was done by the people you worked with.
Anyhow good luck with it, whatever you do you seem to love the job and not care how you get to do your dream
Best of luck with the remainder of the selection process.
However, the fast track system from SAC assistant to Sgt controller is being scrapped!!...........in favour of a system similar to that of direct entry SNCO Aircrew - direct entry SNCO Air Traffic Controller. There will still be the current system of joining as an assistant, working your way through the ranks and being selected for controlling as a Sgt.
And you could always consider joining as an Officer. Or joining the ranks and go for a commission later in your career.
However, the fast track system from SAC assistant to Sgt controller is being scrapped!!...........in favour of a system similar to that of direct entry SNCO Aircrew - direct entry SNCO Air Traffic Controller. There will still be the current system of joining as an assistant, working your way through the ranks and being selected for controlling as a Sgt.
And you could always consider joining as an Officer. Or joining the ranks and go for a commission later in your career.
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Sgts Mess is better than Officers.
Both are better than NATS [no booze at all in NATS].
Free is the only way to ski, paying for it is just stoopid [unless they try and make you ski UP hills].
NATS pays better.
They all have their good and bad points, it's simply a case of what floats your boat. No-one has ever [to my knowledge] done the civvie controller thing then gone military, so if you fancy doing both, you're heading in the right direction.
Good Luck
Both are better than NATS [no booze at all in NATS].
Free is the only way to ski, paying for it is just stoopid [unless they try and make you ski UP hills].
NATS pays better.
They all have their good and bad points, it's simply a case of what floats your boat. No-one has ever [to my knowledge] done the civvie controller thing then gone military, so if you fancy doing both, you're heading in the right direction.
Good Luck
